d20 Modern: What Would you change part II

[Jackelope King]

Yeah, the name doesn't quite mesh. Basically "Science" is my catch-all like Modern's "Knowledge". I think it still works though. Religious lore is as valid a science as studying Humanities, for example.

If I might make a suggestion, let me recomend you change the name from "Science" to something like "Academics" (which I've used in my system as the catch-all for Intelligence skills that come from being well-educated). "Science" is a very different beast in almost every definition from many of the humanities and liberal arts you've included under this heading, especially in the popular view.

 

[Vigilance]

If I might make a suggestion, let me recomend you change the name from "Science" to something like "Academics" (which I've used in my system as the catch-all for Intelligence skills that come from being well-educated). "Science" is a very different beast in almost every definition from many of the humanities and liberal arts you've included under this heading, especially in the popular view.

That's a good idea.

 

[broghammerj]

Chuck,

Is this book written or a work in progress? Either way, I totally get your vibe.

I ran this murder mystery based on a book called The Dante Club. Essentially the PCs were cops tracking a serial killer that was "punishing" people based on the levels of hell in Dantes Inferno. The whole excitement of the adventure was deciphering clues, solving the mystery, and confronting the killer.

I learned early in the adventure that having the PCs roll investigate checks to find every clue at the multiple crime scenes was tedious. It was much more fun to say that if the players could think of it, then they could do it. The skill points sort of became a ceiling to apply at times when the PCs wouldn't realistically know the information.

 

[broghammerj]

What I'm getting rid of, is rolling dice to make a Knowledge check.

You still have knowledge skills, and either you know things or you don't, and if you don't, you have a research time that will tell you how long it will take for you to find out.

Knowledge is what causes Modern to fall apart. I consider the DND skill set a weak scaffold upon which to build a modern game. Take a random skill such as Dungeoneering from DND. I ask the DM how many toes does an owl bear have? He looks at my PC and says, "Wow Dungeoneering 25....An owl bear has 4 toes"

The reason this skill exists is to abstract the relative knowledge a PC has in a world without fact/truth. The DM has no idea how many toes and owl bear has and nor do I. But a skill of 25 says that my PC is likely to know regardless of how many toes a owl bear truly has.

This breaks in the modern world. Take me personally. I am a physician by trade. I have no real knowledge of a bears, but I would have a decent nature knowledge check since I am an outdoorsman. Lets say I need to know how many toes a grizzly bear has. Viola....google tells me its five. Now lets say I had never been outside my apartment and had a nature check of zero. Viola....the same answer in the same time. Thanks internet!

The modern era is full of knowledge. If people don't have knowledge on a subject then they know where to look, who to get it from, etc. Makes a lot of those checks in a modern game worthless.

In short (too late)....Carry on Chuck. Carry on!

 

[Vigilance]

Chuck,

Is this book written or a work in progress?

Very in progress. Skills are done (hence my posting of the final skill list). I'm on to occupations, then Wealth etc etc.

 

[Vigilance]

In short (too late)....Carry on Chuck. Carry on!

Thanks, I've gotten a lot of good feedback from this thread. I really like the skills section. I'm about half-way through revamping Occupations.

 

[buzz]

Makes a lot of those checks in a modern game worthless.

Why would a player be rolling to see if their PC knows how many toes a bear has?

Unless the PC is in a round-by-round situation like combat, either their Knowledge ranks+Take10 cover the info or they use Research. The issue is simply time, which is sort of what Chuck is talking about. This is all in the current ruleset, though.

FWIW, I like the skill consolidation you're doing. I look forward to seeing more of this project!

 

[Psion]

Chuck,

Is this book written or a work in progress? Either way, I totally get your vibe.

I ran this murder mystery based on a book called The Dante Club. Essentially the PCs were cops tracking a serial killer that was "punishing" people based on the levels of hell in Dantes Inferno. The whole excitement of the adventure was deciphering clues, solving the mystery, and confronting the killer.

I learned early in the adventure that having the PCs roll investigate checks to find every clue at the multiple crime scenes was tedious. It was much more fun to say that if the players could think of it, then they could do it. The skill points sort of became a ceiling to apply at times when the PCs wouldn't realistically know the information.

In Spycraft 2.0, which leverages the skill system strongly, one common class ability model is the so called "flawless X". The sleuth class gets it for Investigation and Sense Motive, the Snoop gets it for Analysis and Search, and the Explorer gets it for Athletics and Culture. There are others.

What these class abilities do is, unless you really screw up, if you fail a roll, you are considered to have succeeded if the DC is less than 20+class level.

As a GM, I find the presence of these abilities a major boon when designing a mystery. It lets me put clues out there than people would normally need to roll for that I know will be crucial to the game. There's no risk of missing the clue, but the player involved feels like their character contributed in an important way.

More generally, though, my two philosophies behind making sure PCs can credibly solve a mystery in the presence of clues that could get missed (either because of rolling or because the players themselves fail to put 2 and 2 together) is:
1) Have the rolls give you EXTRA information beyond what is required, for extra benefits. For example, anyone who tries might get enough clues to stop the evil mastermind's plot, but those who get the extra clues can find out who the matermind is and put him away for good. Tiered goals, I guess.
2) Put in 3 times as many clues as the players need.

 

[Mokona]

Most NPCs will have roughly average or just-above-average Constitution and 1 or no copies of Improved Damage Threshold, so a common firearm still has a chance of insta-KO against them.

So what you're saying is that complaints that D20 Modern firearms aren't lethal come about because Damage Threshold isn't being used (correctly at least).

 

[Vigilance]

I've just posted a first look at Occupations