Decline of RPG sales

[barsoomcore]

Man, has it been 15 years already? I seem to recall this exact same kind of banter back in the days of 2nd edition...

Actually, it's been about a week and a half. Or maybe it just seems like it.

...the hobby needs a organization that remains untied to the publishers that is capable of generating longterm interest in the hobby.

Gee, how did I know this was coming? Let me guess, you think there should be an RPG Society or some such thing.

You know, I have so much material right now that it would literally take me years to make use of it all. To run an Iron Kingdoms game, an Exalted game, a Call of Cthulhu game, a d20 Modern game, an Iron Lords of Jupiter game, not to mention EPIC Modern or DINO-PIRATES OF NINJA ISLAND (or whatever JPL's next brainwave is), is going to take me years to do.

I still buy stuff, of course (I'm weak), but if every d20 publisher on the planet disappeared tomorrow, my gaming would carry on just fine, thank you.

Especially since, as a d20 publisher myself, I'd presumably be off with all the rest, and we'd have nothing to do but game all day.

But seriously, associating industry profitability with enjoyment of the hobby just isn't logical. The one is unconnected to the other. Selling RPGs is NEVER going to be very profitable. RPGs are hard to explain, appeal to very few people, are expensive to produce, and are difficult to market and sell. Every now and then some innovation will spark a resurgence and there'll be a rush of profitability, and for the top producers there's probably some return on investment, but it's always going to be small, and it's always going to be risky.

But the games will always be around. And all you really need is some imagination, a lot of time and few things to kickstart your head. Heck, I started my Barsoom campaign without ANY products whatsoever. I made up some rules and let fly. I can pretty easily do that again. Gaming will always be available, it'll always be fun, and I'll never have trouble finding players.

Industry != Hobby

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

D&D 3.75?

Who says the Hobby is diminishing, anyhow?

 

[tf360]

My understanding from one of my local FLGS owners is that it seems the poker boom is starting to go down. People are still playing, but it's reached the point where sales of poker products are way, way down.

One important fact to consider is that poker supplies are no longer the exclusive domain of FLGS or other niche shops. They're sold practically everywhere, from high-end gift shops to supermarkets.

 

[Kanegrundar]

But they are taking up valuable space and make it harder for people new to PDFs to know what is worth spending money on. And we can't forget about the people that buy a few PDFs, hate them, and swear off of PDFs. This exact problem has seriously impacted the M&M Superlink license -- I regularly encounter people that hated some early purchases and refuse to buy anything for Mutants & Masterminds that isn't published by Green Ronin.

Isn't this less of a problem now at RPGNow? I mean with the small publishers with their own site.

As far as the problem with some people swearing off pdfs after one purchase...well, that's dumb. PDF's aren't the problem, crappy product is the problem. I've been burned a couple times with some bad Superlink product, but I still buy from the guys I know and trust to put out quality material (like Ronin Arts, RPGObjects, Blue Devil, LPJ Design, etc.). All it's going to take to win those guys back is a solid pdf product that gets great word of mouth. With more and more publishers turning to pdfs (this is a good thing, IMO) it's going to be harder for gamers that want new material to ignore the format. It may take a little time, but things are moving steadily in that direction.

 

[Varianor Abroad]

WotC is pretty much the only entity with enough resources to have any impact. Maybe WW, too. A non-profit "Society for the Furtherance of Gaming" is an unrealistic hope, IMO. I'm not sure it's even necessary.

It already exists. The Committee for the Advancement of Role-Playing Games, CAR-PGa, has been around for years. Paul Cardwell, the founder, is a font of information about early RPGs and a tireless advocate doing more good on his own to set the story straight about RPGs than the average gamer. I was in an APA with him years ago, and he's a great guy. That said, have I had the money to send him or do much to support his work? Sadly, no. Which is probably the story of most gamers who even think about it.

 

[buzz]

It already exists. The Committee for the Advancement of Role-Playing Games, CAR-PGa, has been around for years. Paul Cardwell, the founder, is a font of information about early RPGs and a tireless advocate doing more good on his own to set the story straight about RPGs than the average gamer. I was in an APA with him years ago, and he's a great guy. That said, have I had the money to send him or do much to support his work? Sadly, no. Which is probably the story of most gamers who even think about it.

Ah, yes. I think I've been to their site in the past. Great collection of literature.

But what do they do on a day-to-day basis?

 

[Vigilance]

I used to produce a healthy amount of free stuff. I stopped when I realized that only 1 in 1000 people took the time to e-mail a simple "thanks" to me. Even the free stuff I've released this year has generated very, very few "thank you" messages.

Most of the free items have released have gotten worse notices, and less attention, than things I paid for.

Its odd, but its my personal experience nontheless.

 

[eyebeams]

Ditto when said persons report positive and supportive data. It's just a different group of ragers.

EDIT: Joe beat me to it. There's also some irony I could point out (not Joe-related), but that wouldn't be particularly productive.

Actually, those "ragers" are the pros you theoretically wishes would chime in, like Rasyr. At this point, I doubt that you or Joe have any real interest in hearing what anyone who works in gaming has to say that doesn't support your current positions, as especially after looking at the last time Joe started threads like this, wherin he yet again ignored anyone pros who didn't tell him how well things were going.

But hey, I see you folks are now going 2 for 2 by telling Phil Reed he doesn't know what he's talking about either, so none of us should get our hopes up, should we?

I keep thinking I should get a colleage to start an account here are parrot the whole, "The Industry is doing great and there's enough room for all the small press outfits!" line people are so fond of, and see how he/she is instantly acclaimed as being informative and wise.

Enh. I'll be over with Tim.

 

[eyebeams]

Oh -- cooperatuve promotion of the hobby is supposed to be one of GAMA's jobs, isn't it?

 

[Kristivas]

You must not visit the associated message boards of those MMOs then. There is nothing but rants about nerf this nerf that. People have been crying for nerfs in MMOs so long it goes back to when Zug wanted Roog's rock nerfed because it was shinier than his. Or what I'd call the, "Hi, I'm scissors, paper is balanced, nerf rock" posts.

Oh, I visit them, but while I'm playing, I don't have to stop over such an arguement: We're going to run over and attack General Drakkisath.. and the whole game stops because the Warrior's player goes: "Guys, I don't think his AoE is supposed to do that! Don't I get a save?! I didn't get to roll!" Then, the priest goes "Yeah, that was way too much damage, this must be broken."

No, his ass doesn't get to roll and that AoE *IS* supposed to do that. You just deal with it and continue, because it's a gaming system with set rules as you're playing . It's not a few people's personal interpritation of a system.

It might change later after some board whining, but it will never change mid-play.