Deific Status and Virtual Size Categories

[SokenzanMarauder]

Got a quick question for anyone who knows more about this than I.

Alrighty, me and some buddies were discussing how pathetic the gods are in Deities & Demigods and we got on the subject of Moradin (no idea how), anyways I got home and decided to stat up Moradin using the beauty that is IH:Ascension and came to a slight halt.

I've noticed that to be a Greater Deity (which Moradin is qualified for as a DR 19 deity) you need to be large. Well, he's medium. However, he has the strength to be of a (much) larger size (something around macro-fine I believe), so, here comes my question.

Do virtual size categories count towards being a Deity of higher rank?

-Gene

edit: Oh, might as well throw in another quick question while I'm at it. On page 26 of Ascension it gives a chart of the ability scores for deities by rank, I'm wondering, is this before or after all the modifiers that they get?

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

I think U_K was going to throw out the size requirements.

As for page 26: Looks like those are after the divinity template modifiers. They are for if you need a 'Deity on the fly'. Good numbers to go by, but you could just "do it yourself" and see how your version compares.

As for Moradin, I don't think his Deities and Demigods ranks (meaning divine bonus, not divine tier) equate 1:1 to Ascension ranks. (This doesn't matter if you slap on the generic Greater God template; but should probably be worked out if you make your own template for him)

 

[WarDragon]

I couldn't tell if U_K applied VSCs to the sample gods, or not, but the minimum size requirements don't start until the Elder One level, regardless.

As for getting ability scores, I prefer to generate them as I would a PC or NPC; roll or point buy for the base, then increase for racial, divine, and other bonuses.

 

[SokenzanMarauder]

I think U_K was going to throw out the size requirements.

Hopefully, while they make sense somewhat, I'd rather not have to deal with them.

As for page 26: Looks like those are after the divinity template modifiers. They are for if you need a 'Deity on the fly'. Good numbers to go by, but you could just "do it yourself" and see how your version compares.

Oh boy, looks like I've got some work to do then. I was wondering why his stats were so insanely high.

As for Moradin, I don't think his Deities and Demigods ranks (meaning divine bonus, not divine tier) equate 1:1 to Ascension ranks. (This doesn't matter if you slap on the generic Greater God template; but should probably be worked out if you make your own template for him)

Well, the only reason I've got him as a Greater God would be because he was one of the highest tier deities presented in Deities & Demigods, personally I don't think he deserves to be that high, but one of my friends would have my head if he found that out.

I couldn't tell if U_K applied VSCs to the sample gods, or not, but the minimum size requirements don't start until the Elder One level, regardless.

I couldn't tell either, that's actually one of the reasons I'm asking here and for some odd reason I actually got it into my head that Greater Gods had a size requirement too. Hmm.

As for getting ability scores, I prefer to generate them as I would a PC or NPC; roll or point buy for the base, then increase for racial, divine, and other bonuses.

Well, time to start working, I figure I'll just do 32 pt. buy as it's easier than rolling. Now all I have to do is stat up a 70 HD god.

-----

Hmm, now that I look, Moradin only has 70 (69 technically but I gave him 1 more expert level) HD, to qualify for Greater Deity he needs 80... Interesting.

-Gene

 

[WarDragon]

I'd say don't give him any Expert levels at all, regardless of the Metalworking portfolio. Gods shouldn't have crappy classes. Fighter/Cleric/Dwarven Defender is the way to go for the Soulforger.

 

[Fieari]

I'd stick with the HD guidelines. Either give him more HD, or drop him a rank. I'd drop him a rank, myself, but it's up to you.

 

[WarDragon]

He's the Progenitor of the Dwarven Dynasty. Why would he not be a Greater God?

 

[SokenzanMarauder]

I'd say don't give him any Expert levels at all, regardless of the Metalworking portfolio. Gods shouldn't have crappy classes. Fighter/Cleric/Dwarven Defender is the way to go for the Soulforger.

Well, originally I was going to use all of his base classes as listed in Deities & Demigods, however, I'm in agreement that he doesn't need 'crap classes.' Besides, I've got so many sourcebooks I can turn him into a real smith.

I'd stick with the HD guidelines. Either give him more HD, or drop him a rank. I'd drop him a rank, myself, but it's up to you.

Actually, as of right this moment I've dropped him to Intermediate Deity.

He's the Progenitor of the Dwarven Dynasty. Why would he not be a Greater God?

Be that as it may, he doesn't meet the 80 HD requirement, though it really wouldn't be hard to give him 10 additional levels. As of right now I'm thinking something like this:

20 Outsider
20 Fighter
20 Cleric
20 Misc. (Base Classes, Prestige Classes, Templates, etc.)

Regards,
-Gene

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

Got a quick question for anyone who knows more about this than I.

Alrighty, me and some buddies were discussing how pathetic the gods are in Deities & Demigods and we got on the subject of Moradin (no idea how), anyways I got home and decided to stat up Moradin using the beauty that is IH:Ascension and came to a slight halt.

I've noticed that to be a Greater Deity (which Moradin is qualified for as a DR 19 deity) you need to be large. Well, he's medium. However, he has the strength to be of a (much) larger size (something around macro-fine I believe), so, here comes my question.

Do virtual size categories count towards being a Deity of higher rank?

Moradin (Fighter 41, Cleric 41, Wizard 20)
HD 102d20+3264 (5304 hp, doubled on home plane)
Ability Scores (using Ascension pg. 26)
Str 52, Con 67, Dex 43, Int 43, Wis 48, Cha 33
Add size: 20 ft. tall = Huge size = +2 size categories +20 str, +8 Con, -4 Dex
Str 72, Con 75, Dex 39, Int 43, Wis 48, Cha 33

Huge base Str 30, gains VSC every +15 above base. 45 (+1), 60 (+2).

Moradin has 2 VSCs.

Therefore Moradin's Warhammer Blows will deal 4d8 base damage.

He will be ECL 182 (CR 121 with 4 artifacts: Warhammer, Shield, Armour, Anvil)

Warhammer +33 (with +32 worth of special abilities)
Shield +46 (with +45 worth of abilities)
Armour +46 (with +45 worth of abilities)
Anvil - Artifact equivalent to 2 cosmic abilities + 4 divine abilities.

Damage 4d8+64...before adding feats and divine abilities.

Portfolios Craft and Dwarves probably.

Does that help?

edit: Oh, might as well throw in another quick question while I'm at it. On page 26 of Ascension it gives a chart of the ability scores for deities by rank, I'm wondering, is this before or after all the modifiers that they get?

Its after divine bonuses (from the divinity templates) and ability score boosts (from levelling up). It doesn't take into account size, divine abilities, feats or magic items.

 

[SokenzanMarauder]

Hiya mate!

Howdy!

I was wondering when you'd show up.

Moradin (Fighter 41, Cleric 41, Wizard 20)
HD 102d20+3264 (5304 hp, doubled on home plane)
Ability Scores (using Ascension pg. 26)
Str 52, Con 67, Dex 43, Int 43, Wis 48, Cha 33
Add size: 20 ft. tall = Huge size = +2 size categories +20 str, +8 Con, -4 Dex
Str 72, Con 75, Dex 39, Int 43, Wis 48, Cha 33

Huge base Str 30, gains VSC every +15 above base. 45 (+1), 60 (+2).

Moradin has 2 VSCs.

Therefore Moradin's Warhammer Blows will deal 4d8 base damage.

He will be ECL 182 (CR 121 with 4 artifacts: Warhammer, Shield, Armour, Anvil)

Warhammer +33 (with +32 worth of special abilities)
Shield +46 (with +45 worth of abilities)
Armour +46 (with +45 worth of abilities)
Anvil - Artifact equivalent to 2 cosmic abilities + 4 divine abilities.

Damage 4d8+64...before adding feats and divine abilities.

Portfolios Craft and Dwarves probably.

Does that help?

Immensely! This is a much better base than what I'd had going. Mind if I work off of it?

Its after divine bonuses (from the divinity templates) and ability score boosts (from levelling up). It doesn't take into account size, divine abilities, feats or magic items.

Thanks much for clearing that up.

Regards,
-Gene