D&D 5E DEX-based spear wielding Fighter

[Ancalagon]

Yeah, one-handed swords tend to converge on about the same weight. And the use of any one-handed sword requires more arm strength than a two-handed sword, because, y'know, you're only using half the number of arms (and also leverage is not your friend). So if anything, the two-handers ought to be finesse weapons and the one-handers not.

There has been discussions on how to represent weapons like the longsword (the historical one) that were very agile and fast, with a fighting style based around versatile weapons. Nothing really successful stood out.

It'd obviously be outside the standard rogue proficiencies. And even if a rogue does acquire the proficiency... so what? Is a rogue with a two-handed finesse weapon really going to do catastrophically more damage than a rogue with two short swords?

Sentinel and PAM trigger a lot of AoO and that could add to a lot of damage.

 

[Gwarok]

We did a house rule that any Versatile weapon not only goes up a die in damage when used 2 handed, but is also considered Finesse when doing so. Fixed all kindsa stuff like this.

 

[The Grassy Gnoll]

Have you seen the film, Troy? Massacring of the Greek texts aside, it seems an awesome demonstration of how Spear fighting might work. To my eyes, anyway, the Spear is not a finesse weapon. It’s a 5’ long pointy stick. To be agile with it is one thing (spinny jumpy stuff), but that’s basically just a case of not skipping Leg Day. To _control_ the 5’ long pointy stick requires Strength.

To me finesse weapons should be daggers, rapiers, small knives. End of.
A rogue swinging a 2H sword is not finesse!

As a Fighter, you’re going to be MAD as you want to pimp out all three physical stats - STR, DEX and CON. DEX if nothing else to allow Plate Armour Boy to go first in combat. Ever wondered why Fighters get more ASIs than other classes?

To make a Dex Spear Fighter (shall we call him Dexy? Let’s call him Dexy), as others have said, base it on the Monk. Just ignore Ki Points by the simple expedient of only taking one level - I would probably do it by taking the route Fighter 1, Monk 1, Fighter 2+.
That way you essentially gain:
- A Half Tavern Brawler Feat (for Unarmed Damage at least). Let’s call it a Wine Bar Brawler Feat.
- Unarmoured Defence (probably not amazing because WIS = dump stat, but still useful)
- You can use Dex for your Spear
- Bonus Butt Attack if you refluff the martial arts BA to Butt Attack or count it as a blow delivered mid-spin whilst pivoting on your Pointy Pogo of Pain.

All you have to do is mentally reskin the Monastery you trained in, to Lots of Practice With a Spear that also involved the spinny, kicky shiznitz (Unarmoured Defence) and the use of a Butt Attack or leg sweep here and there as part of your spinny majorette routine (martial arts).

Hell, I would even be tempted to let you use a Shield and get these benefits (but only when using a Spear), due to the limited use you’ll get from your WIS on your AC. No Bonus Action Pommel Attack or Leg Sweep when Sword fighting, or mace fighting, or any kind of fighting except Spear. Because it’s all part of your Jazz Hands of Death routine with the Spear.

No you don’t get the Polearm Master Butt Attack because your Spear is 5’ or so long. But look at all the Spear goodness you do get.

And all (almost) by RAW.

 

[BookBarbarian]

It'd obviously be outside the standard rogue proficiencies. And even if a rogue does acquire the proficiency... so what? Is a rogue with a two-handed finesse weapon really going to do catastrophically more damage than a rogue with two short swords?

If it has the heavy property and the Rogue has GWM, then yes. Otherwise no.

On the whole if if wielding a versatile weapon in two hands allowed you to treat it as finesse I don't think much would break.

But I bet someone else on here will point out something I hadn't considered.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

If it has the heavy property and the Rogue has GWM, then yes. Otherwise no.

On the whole if if wielding a versatile weapon in two hands allowed you to treat it as finesse I don't think much would break.

But I bet someone else on here will point out something I hadn't considered.

I would argue that if something breaks this, the problem is with that thing, not this. This should be doable. Just imagine if people were like, "Oh, we can't have longbows, they'd be broken with Feat X."

 

[BookBarbarian]

I would argue that if something breaks this, the problem is with that thing, not this. This should be doable.

Seems doable to me, but I disagree that the problem would by necessity lie in an existing portion of the game. That seems like an irresponsible design paradigm to live by. Changes should work with the existing system rather than cause unexpected results within it.

Just imagine if people were like, "Oh, we can't have longbows, they'd be broken with Feat X."

I don't this analogy jives. "Oh we can't have [some change] to longbows because they'd be broken with Feat X" is a far cry from "Oh, we can't have longbows, they'd be broken with Feat X."

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

To me finesse weapons should be daggers, rapiers, small knives. End of.
A rogue swinging a 2H sword is not finesse!

Agreed. Finesse is delicacy and subtlety. Using a finesse weapon involves using precise wrist movements to manipulate a small and light weapon.

What Brad Pitt's Achilles is doing has nothing delicate or subtle about it.

 

[Ancalagon]

Agreed. Finesse is delicacy and subtlety. Using a finesse weapon involves using precise wrist movements to manipulate a small and light weapon.

What Brad Pitt's Achilles is doing has nothing delicate or subtle about it.

You need to look at some longsword fencing... definitely not just raw strength.

 

[Tony Vargas]

What Brad Pitt's Achilles is doing has nothing delicate or subtle about it.

Very agile, though. Some of his kills look like SA would model them neatly.

You need to look at some longsword fencing... definitely not just raw strength.

Realistically, multiple 'stats' would go into most checks. DEX & STR both matter to attacking with a melee weapons. So does being alert for openings & able to 'read' your opponent (WIS). So does aggression/dominance, or, conversely, feinting/deceptions (CHA). So does Endurance (CON). I'm sure we could work INT in there, too, RQII did, along with reach (SIZ) and connectedness to the universe (POW).

D&D just isn't that kind of a system. So the top of the heap for the style in question rules. STR for most melee, DEX for finesse & most ranged.

The spear does not get a lot of credit. Maybe that stems from wanting it to be 'simple' with simple needing to mean 'not so great,' so that fighters can be proud of their 'martial proficiency' or whatever...

 

[hejtmane]

Kind of funny the character he listed is Eastern flavor she only uses a 2h spear. By the way very good series now with out house rules the closest you can get now would be kensi monk and all except the leather armor works with the kensi mobile dex based spear and you could mix in battle master multiclass to expand the build out with the surperority dice and add trips etc