Or, find a good house rule.
Diplomacy +23 at 3rd level??? Help, my player must be wrong!!!
FireLance
Legend
A good rule of thumb which I use to adjudicate Diplomacy is to ask yourself what requests you would agree to from a random stranger off the street (Indifferent), an ordinary friend (Friendly), and a close companion (Helpful). Diplomacy is not dominate person. It doesn't make everyone the character meets into mindless automatons.
If you asked a guard to let you see what he's guarding, an Indifferent guard might tell you to push off, a Friendly guard might turn you down nicely, and a Helpful guard might bring the matter to his superior. Using diplomacy to get the BBEG to give up his grand plan is probably useless, especially if he places no value on friendship.
When there is a character who is good at diplomacy, the DM should plan ahead and decide how creatures and NPCs will react, and what help (if any) they will give at various reaction levels. The character should get some value from his investment in the skill, but it doesn't always have to go his way.
If you asked a guard to let you see what he's guarding, an Indifferent guard might tell you to push off, a Friendly guard might turn you down nicely, and a Helpful guard might bring the matter to his superior. Using diplomacy to get the BBEG to give up his grand plan is probably useless, especially if he places no value on friendship.
When there is a character who is good at diplomacy, the DM should plan ahead and decide how creatures and NPCs will react, and what help (if any) they will give at various reaction levels. The character should get some value from his investment in the skill, but it doesn't always have to go his way.
Wonred
First Post
It sure doesn't look like your player needs help or correction, they seem to have a great handle on properly min/maxing a character. Way to squeeze every last bonus out of a character! Their choice of skills to min/max was encouraging too. How many DM's have any player in their group with competent ranks in Diplomacy? The player may be min/maxing, but at least it's a skill they can roleplay with.
I would be very interested in seeing this character after a few more levels have been gained, if the poor bastard can sweet talk himself into surviving.
I would be very interested in seeing this character after a few more levels have been gained, if the poor bastard can sweet talk himself into surviving.
I had a similar player once. She was playing a Courtier (from Rokugan) and had a similar bonus at level 2.
So I sent them to the local lizardman tribe to negotiate with their leader. Thanks to the horror/terror rules from Ravenloft, they were quite disturbed to discover the tribal queen was a dragon. Several characters developed mental problems as a result.
So this second-level character talked an old green dragon out of eating the party. (Mind you, the dragon wasn't really hungry, and had a streak of vanity a mile wide...).
That's how you give a character like this a chance to shine. And make the player curse their decision to min/max to such a degree (since there was a fair amount of sweating going on during the Diplomacy checks).
So I sent them to the local lizardman tribe to negotiate with their leader. Thanks to the horror/terror rules from Ravenloft, they were quite disturbed to discover the tribal queen was a dragon. Several characters developed mental problems as a result.
So this second-level character talked an old green dragon out of eating the party. (Mind you, the dragon wasn't really hungry, and had a streak of vanity a mile wide...).
That's how you give a character like this a chance to shine. And make the player curse their decision to min/max to such a degree (since there was a fair amount of sweating going on during the Diplomacy checks).
Romnipotent
First Post
If they were a Marshal it would be higher, and if they were in forgotten realms it would be a little lower.
Marshal is a class in the Miniatures handbook, they have Auras that use there CHA mod to certain things, such as:
Dexterity checks, like balance and initiative
Damage while flanking
Charisma based checks like diplomacy and bluff
*Marshals also get Skill Focus (Diplomacy) for free, leaving room for a free feat
In Forgotten realms the feat Smooth Talker (regional) allows you to perform a diplomatic action as a full round action at a -5 penalty, not the normal -10. Diplomacy is WEAK, since the opponent must be willing to listen. If they dont want to or cant hear the skill is useless.
Marshal is a class in the Miniatures handbook, they have Auras that use there CHA mod to certain things, such as:
Dexterity checks, like balance and initiative
Damage while flanking
Charisma based checks like diplomacy and bluff
*Marshals also get Skill Focus (Diplomacy) for free, leaving room for a free feat
In Forgotten realms the feat Smooth Talker (regional) allows you to perform a diplomatic action as a full round action at a -5 penalty, not the normal -10. Diplomacy is WEAK, since the opponent must be willing to listen. If they dont want to or cant hear the skill is useless.
Ridley's Cohort
First Post
First of all, count yourself lucky. Many DMs would love to ever see a PC that is minmaxxed for something other than average damage per round.
Second of all, it is not imbalanced. Lots of precious resources have been spent.
Third of all, Diplomacy is not mind control and will not erase the strong motivations of an NPC. As I see it, a Friendly NPC is always open to suggestions that can change a conflict to a "win-win" solution, and may even make obvious suggestions of his own. But that does not mean the NPC would be willing to abandon his goals or duties in general.
"I feel you are the rare kind of man who can understand me. I attack the town because I need the human sacrifices for my experiments. Is there a different source of subjects you can suggest? No? I think there is no more to discuss. You and your friends may part in peace. If you further interfere, I will destroy you."
Second of all, it is not imbalanced. Lots of precious resources have been spent.
Third of all, Diplomacy is not mind control and will not erase the strong motivations of an NPC. As I see it, a Friendly NPC is always open to suggestions that can change a conflict to a "win-win" solution, and may even make obvious suggestions of his own. But that does not mean the NPC would be willing to abandon his goals or duties in general.
"I feel you are the rare kind of man who can understand me. I attack the town because I need the human sacrifices for my experiments. Is there a different source of subjects you can suggest? No? I think there is no more to discuss. You and your friends may part in peace. If you further interfere, I will destroy you."
Dog Moon
Adventurer
Be Glad It's Not Bluff
As the title says, be glad it's not bluff. Bluff is a buff skill. Even at level 7, one of my player's can Bluff another into believing stupid crap, even with bonuses to the Bluffed for stuff he/she wouldn't normally believe. It is a very useful skill, even more useful than Diplomacy, and not just for Rogues either. It isn't as situational as Diplomacy and can even be used in battle. Heh. Well, I guess there's my little bit of ranting for the day.
As the title says, be glad it's not bluff. Bluff is a buff skill. Even at level 7, one of my player's can Bluff another into believing stupid crap, even with bonuses to the Bluffed for stuff he/she wouldn't normally believe. It is a very useful skill, even more useful than Diplomacy, and not just for Rogues either. It isn't as situational as Diplomacy and can even be used in battle. Heh. Well, I guess there's my little bit of ranting for the day.
Similar Threads
