Discouraging Spotlight Hogging

[Aristeas]

I run a fairly large weekly game (8 regular players). Five of them now have complained to me now about feeling unable to participate because two of the others are monopolizing the spotlight. Just one spotlight hog is pretty easy to deal with: make whatever she's not good at central to the story. But we have both a beguiler (call her Alice) who insists on controlling all the information gathering scenes (since she can sneak into anywhere invisible and silent and charm information out of people), and a diplomacy-and-bluff focused Akashic (call her Beth) who insists on running all the interaction scenes. This might not be a problem by itself, if all the other characters were combat-focused, but several of the others are Tactician and Story players in the Robin's Laws sense, who would all really like to be contributing something to the direction of the campaign. So a lot of each session is information gathering (preempted by Alice) and interaction (preempted by Beth), even though other people's characters are also focused on these sorts of things. Both also have a tendency to interject with "While this is going on, I do X..." in scenes where their characters aren't present and others are acting. So, any thoughts, o Enworld collective brain?

Parameters:
1) I can't kick anyone out. We're all close friends, and actually ejecting anyone would put the entire group under strain.
2) This would be easier to fix in a dungeon, but we prefer a very open, character driven environment where the players more or less decide the direction of the story. This is not to say I can't control anything, but it would be difficult to, for instance, create an adventure in which the abilities of the overshadowed characters were the only way to solve a problem. People will feel railroaded if there aren't multiple available paths.
3) In-character bad consequences have been tried and failed. Alice in particular has been nearly killed three or four times after going off alone, but the lesson she takes away is "Be sneakier," not "Cooperate."
4) Neither is aware that they're grandstanding. I've talked to both of them, and they agree with the necessity of sharing the spotlight, they always just forget to do it. They're both very reasonable people with bad habits. I'm hoping one of you has a more effective way of getting the idea across.
5) I've debated explicit out-of-character spotlight sharing rules, but I'm concerned that too many rules will prevent people from enjoying the evening. Nobody really wants to be told that can't talk.

 

[2WS-Steve]

You could try splitting the party up every so often -- have misisons where the two spotlighters go do one thing and the others do something else. This might help establish some equal time-sharing that'll last after the mission splits.

 

[Jubilee]

Since you have already talked to the two players about grandstanding, I wonder if you have made it clear enough that THEY are doing it? If you haven't, start there. If you have, and they agree they do it but continue to do so, start inserting IC reminders - have NPCs comment on how the one player who says "while that goes on, I do this" alot, is interrupting, is rude, or whatever. Have the NPCs ask if the talk-alots speak for the whole party. Have the NPCs seek out the other players, ask the other players questions or for opinions.

If that doesn't work, or you don't want to do that, try working out some table signals for the two players in question so they are reminded that they are behaving badly. The hardest thing about changing bad habits is often realizing you are doing them when you do it. If you don't want to break the scene to say "back off for a bit," I suggest things like tapping the table, clearing your throat and giving them a meaningful stare, passing a note, throwing a wad of paper, or some other act to signal them. Try a "spotlight hog" jar that they have to pay a quarter into whenever they are caught doing it.

/ali

 

[taliesin15]

Interesting you mention Robin's rules, as I immediately thought of the times I've been a group facilitator (outside RPGs) implementing Robin's Rules of Order. I consider myself *no expert* at this, and I must say that doing that kind of thing is certainly no easy task. I hope you understand my point that you have tough job ahead of you and that there's sympathy out here for your predicament.

One idea that immediately springs to mind is to simply use the go around the table method (from Robin's rules). Let Beth and Alice have the floor/spotlight, but NOW it's Jeff's turn, NOW it's Mary's and so on, and you don't recognize anyone else unless you want to or it comes to their turn. Sometimes in group dynamic it feels right to keep things fast and loose, like now its more or less Jeff who has the floor, but when he and everyone seems to be cool with it, you can loosen up the rules, and let others chime in. Otherwise, you can take the approach that you're going to run things your way to make sure with each plot point everyone has a say.

An obvious thing you sorta alluded to is to bring in plot points that feature other characters' abilities. Keep doing that. Focus on little used skills and feats. Focus on backgrounds of the characters. Invent something in someone's background that is now relevant to the story, something they only clicked on. For example, let's say the party has found a potion bottle that looks milky green--the wallflower halfling realizes suddenly that looks like something his uncle Fergus used to distill using Mandrake and Licorice!

Figure out ways that being Sneaky is detrimental to the party. NPCs start treating Beth and Alice with caution, and maybe they need the other characters to help gather info.

 

[Wild Gazebo]

Pick an inanimate object such as a rock or statuette. Create a rule that states no one may talk unless they posess that item. Ensure a fair method of despensing the item and alternate timely. I have played in a few groups that used this method...and it worked very well.

I consider this (using an object to speak) a last resort thing--I make all of my players speak in first person...to circumvent this problem. As well, If the party wishes to do things during similar timelines I roll initiative and resolve them in order (and explicitly tell somebody that is interupting that it is not their turn and , yes, they will have a turn).


Hope that helps.

 

[Wild Gazebo]

Thought I should elaborate on my 'first person' remark as it seems vague at a second glance.

I make my players speak in first person, not only to make the game run smoother and promote staying in character, but so that each player takes ownership of their actions. There is no 'so-in-so keeps interupting me' because the player's character becomes the one whining about lack of spot light. This may seem a bit harsh but it has worked for me for several years. I make the players each take onus of their share of the game.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I'm going to give slightly different advice here--this is my take:

Alice and Beth wanted to be information-gatherering rogue and party face, respectively. They made their character choices and selected classes explictly for this purpose--an Akashic in particular is pretty terrible at everything except her skills of choice. Thus, in most cases, they should be able to handle the info gathering and RPing scenes. If a storyteller player creates a Fighter with 8 Cha and no Diplomacy, it doesn't mean she can't tell a story, but it does mean she can't be the party face.

So actually, that's going to be my advice. Let Alice and Beth do their thing and do it well. But contribute to the storyteller's story nonetheless--she probably wrote a 5-page character history. Weave in her plot points and NPCs--even if Beth is party face, the grumpy fighter is going to be the one who has to deal with his crazy noble father and the beautiful but ruthless girl that he's supposed to marry, and he'll appreciate those links. For the tactician--let Alice come back with tons of info, but don't let it be the be all and end all. Let Alice give info to the party that lets the tactician make some truly awesome plans with all the advanced knowledge she has (even fudge a little to make the plans a bit more awesome). The tactician will be thrilled that her plans were such a hit. Alice will be pleased as punch that her info is what led to that plan, even though it wasn't the be-all-end-all by itself, and they'll enjoy working together.

I hope this helps!

 

[Chimera]

Since you have already talked to the two players about grandstanding, I wonder if you have made it clear enough that THEY are doing it?

What he said.

When they interject to take over or walk all over others, you're going to need to step up and tell them that "Yes, but this is so-and-so's moment in the spotlight, so you're going to need to wait". If they don't get 'subtle', you may need to hit them with the brick and tell outright them that they're hogging the spotlight and need to back off and let others shine.

Bottom line is that if you've talked about it, they admit that they're going it, and they're still doing it to the point of annoying people and making your job tougher, then you need to give them stronger clues that they're out of line.

Before it reaches a point where you or one of the other players reacts in anger and the whole situation gets out of hand.

 

[mythusmage]

Get the other players together and tell they have to assert themselves. You're the moderator, the facilitator. You're not the boss. The other players have to stand up for themselves.

There is one way you can help. Whenever an MC (moderator character) is talking to one of the other players' character, and a bossy player's character butts in, have your MC look at the BPC and tell him, "I was talking with him, do you mind?"

If the player in question doesn't take the hint have your MC tell the party as a whole, "Come talk with me when that fool is not withyou." and stalk off in a huff.

(The purpose is to get the party so mad at the player, they'll actually tell him (or her) to back off.)

 

[Wild Gazebo]

There is one way you can help. Whenever an MC (moderator character) is talking to one of the other players' character, and a bossy player's character butts in, have your MC look at the BPC and tell him, "I was talking with him, do you mind?"

Exactly.