(Discussion) LA+ race availability - read post first, please vote.

Would you support LA+ races for LEW charcters and under what circumstances?

  • No, I don't want LA+ races at all

    Votes: 5 22.7%
  • Yes, with [i]negitive levels[/i]

    Votes: 7 31.8%
  • Yes, with [i]racial levels[/i]

    Votes: 8 36.4%
  • Sort of, with [i]lesser versions[/i]

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes, with [i]PC Tradeout[/i]

    Votes: 11 50.0%
  • Yes, with an[i]other[/i] option explained below

    Votes: 2 9.1%
  • I neither oppose nor support LA+ races

    Votes: 1 4.5%

  • Poll closed .

Kahuna Burger

First Post
OK, there's been quite a bit of talk over on general discussion about Level Adjusted race availability - for any newbies, those are races which cannot start as a first level character because they are too powerful, and thus get equivelent character levels added to the PC just for being of that race. It seems pretty obvious that no one wants to just allow completely new characters to come in with level adjustments, and some folks want to avoid level adjustments entirely. This poll is to feel out general support outside of the judges and compulsive Gen Disc posters.

The poll is multiple answer, though conflicitng ones would be a bad idea. If you are ok with the idea of LA races in general, vote for all those possible solutions to the power issue that you would support.

A bit of expansion on those options.

Negitive levels These work the same as negitive levels imposed by some spells and level draining abilities (-1 to just about everything) but do not turn into true level loss and cannot be removed except by leveling up. So an asimar PC would start out with all of the race abilities but one negitive level. When the PC leveled up, they would gain no class abilities, but just lose the penalties the negitive level was imposing. (they would still be counted as a 2nd level character for XP purposes, as is the case for most of these solutions.)

Racial levels Rather than being given full racial abilities at first level, the character starts out with a LA0 version of the racial abilities and their first class level. When they level up, they gain more of their racial abilities to bring them up to LA +1, but no class adjustments at all (including hit dice). A high LA race PC might be allowed to alternate class and racial levels so as not to fall completely behind on hit points. A player who wanted an Asimar cleric PC, for instance, could start out with one cleric level, no stat adjustments, darkvision and the +2 bonus to spot and listen, and be basicly balanced with a human cleric1. When the character leveled normally, he would gain no hit die or skill points, but get the +2 to wis and cha, energy resistances and daylight use and be considered a 2nd level character for all XP purposes.

Lesser versions This would be similar to the racial levels, but the first level version would be the only one available. So it doesn't really allow LA+ races, just races with similar names and flavor.

PC Tradeout This idea would allow a leveled LEW character who had died or was simply no longer interesting to the player to be traded out for a new character of equivelent XP (or what the XP total would be after raising in the case of a dead character). This higher starting point could be used to accomadate LA+ races or just higher levels in a class.

other if you perfer another method, feel free to add it, or if you support one of the above ideas in a significantly restricted form.

The final decision will likely be up to the judges, who would also have to approve the progression/lesser version/overall LA of each race on a case by case basis, but I think some general input would be good.

Kahuna Burger
 
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The Goblin King

First Post
Kahuna Burger said:
Now comeon guys, there's been 15 veiws and only 5 votes... :D i even left an option to vote your apathy

I do appreciate that. :) Luckily, I have an opinion on the subject. I voted for no +LA races. My reason for this is that I think things should follow the KISS principle. But thats my point of view. IANAJ :)
 

Otakkun

Explorer
Alternative

Unearthed Arcana introduces a new option for LA reduction, named EXPERIENCE POINT COST (page 18). As fasr as I know, all UA is open content, so LEW could use it with no problem. This would allow other races that I've seen interest for to be playable as well (such as gnolls, lizardfolk, etc).

IMO a good restriction (and to keep things in perspective, population wise), every player should be restricted to only one of his three possible characters to have a LA.
 

Knight Otu

First Post
The problem with the UA variant is, it only kicks in at higher levels, while people are looking for a solution to allow "ECL races" at a low, best 1st level without upsetting game balance.
 

Otakkun

Explorer
Knight Otu said:
The problem with the UA variant is, it only kicks in at higher levels, while people are looking for a solution to allow "ECL races" at a low, best 1st level without upsetting game balance.

Then maybe it could be used in addition to a solution for low level ECLs. I'd say negative ECLs work ok for low levels, the UA variant works best afterwards.
 

Creamsteak

Explorer
I'm not proposing this or anything, but one method that's "simple" that I've seen works like this:

You get a -1 to attack rolls, saving throws, and skill checks for each level below the ECL your character is. So, if you were going to play a 4 hit dice creature with a +2 level adjustment at first level, you get a -5 to attack rolls, saving throws, and skill checks. You also only get 1 hit dice per character level, with level adjustments divided evenly throughout the progression (so at 3rd and 6th levels). On level adjustment levels, you regain supernatural and spell like abilities related to the race.

It's not a very simple solution, but if built into a mechanic that works, it could be viable.

That said, I'm still more-or-less for characters being "traded in" when they die or are retired, for a character of either level -1 or level -2 or something along those lines. It's simple, and allows veteran players that lose a battle to rejoin the game, without coming in from scratch. Also, retired PCs are so ripe story stuff...
 


Manzanita

First Post
I voted no

I voted no. This is why:

- I dont' really want gnolls, lizardfolk, or even goblins wandering into the Inn. I think these sorts of PCs need to have be worked into the campaign on an individual basis.

-I'm uncomfortable with LEW specific races. I'd prefer to keep it simple.

-I'd much rather people focus on world building. I want thieves guilds, wizard academies, legends, cities, history and such. I think these things would be a much more useful contribution to LENWorld.

At some point in the future, I would probably support the PC tradeout option.
 

Kahuna Burger

First Post
Manzanita said:
-I'm uncomfortable with LEW specific races. I'd prefer to keep it simple.

-I'd much rather people focus on world building. I want thieves guilds, wizard academies, legends, cities, history and such. I think these things would be a much more useful contribution to LENWorld.

if this seems argumentative, just ignore it, but I did want to comment on the overlap between these two comments. I think when done correctly, a new race proposal is as strong a source of world building as any of the ideas you mentioned. The Wildlings, to push my own creation, by their very existance and history flesh out a segment of the LEW map I described in passing into political and social as well as geographic entities. If they are approved, my first move would not be to create one as a character (as I do not currently want to abandon any of mine and am already maxed out) but to use them in a campaign starting with diplomatic finagaling in the ultra ordered land of Utopia, moving on to some combat and trap dodging in the war torn border of the wilding woods, and hopefully progressing to some good RP as the characters decide what side they really want to be on. Having a non-world wise and not very bright super tracker to RP is fun, but the inclusion of the race, its home, it enemies and potential allies in the world was just as important, if not moreso.

Just my two cents. not really about the LA issue when it comes down to it, but going tangental on those comments.

Kahuna Burger
 

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