Do automatic hit abilities kill minions?

[GoLu]

The rules are inconsistent, and it's hard to tell what's a rule and what's an off-hand reference to how a rule usually works. The section on temp hit points, for example, (PHB, page 293-294) seems to strongly lean towards minions benefiting from temp hit points since they act as "a layer of insulation that attacks have to get through before they start doing damage".

On the other hand, it does add complexity to a type of monster designed specifically to avoid complexity. And the above quote implies that temp hit points step in before resistances or vulnerabilities or "if you damage an enemy" clauses in powers, which I don't think is intentional.


One house rule I've seen around here and am pretty fond of is a sort of compromise: minions do benefit from temp hit points. Any hit that is completely absorbed by those temp hit points does not kill the minion, but it does remove all remaining temp hit points. But that's guaranteed not RAW, while the other options are at least arguable.

 

[Rel]

I like the idea of Minions potentially benefitting in durability from a leader type. Temp HP are a way already built into the system for tracking this but I could just as easily rule that the ability granted by the leader makes them "super minions" who die after 2 hits rather than 1. That way don't have to track HP and instead just put a little "damaged" status marker on the ones that are down to 1 hit.

 

[Mistwell]

I like the idea of Minions potentially benefitting in durability from a leader type. Temp HP are a way already built into the system for tracking this but I could just as easily rule that the ability granted by the leader makes them "super minions" who die after 2 hits rather than 1. That way don't have to track HP and instead just put a little "damaged" status marker on the ones that are down to 1 hit.

Which means if the striker crits with his daily against the minion, the minion lives...even if the solo would have died from such a hit.

 

[Rel]

Which means if the striker crits with his daily against the minion, the minion lives...even if the solo would have died from such a hit.

Hey, I didn't call them "Super Minions" for nothing.

 

[Herschel]

Which means if the striker crits with his daily against the minion, the minion lives...even if the solo would have died from such a hit.

If the striker uses his daily on a minion, so be it. Except said striker will likely be a ranger hitting it twice anyway.

 

[jedrious]

I think either of two options is reasonable:

1) Ignore the "Ask Wizards" answer and go with the RAW DMG Minion clause, where any damage from a non-miss kills the minion, regardless of temporary hit points.

2) Ignore the RAW DMG Minion clause and go with the "Ask Wizards" answer (which is the answer you proposed as well), where you have to reduce temporary hit points to zero as well as their real hit points before the minion dies.

I suspect either option will work fine with most games. Number 2 slightly increases the power of minions, particularly if they have a leader in their group that grants temporary hit points to allies (which is not that uncommon). This will reduce the power of some class-types like the Controller, since many of their powers are intended to do very little damage but auto-kill minions. But, I still do not think option 2 would harm a game that much.

Personally, I am going with option 1.

Read Rules number 1 and 2: Simple Rules, Multiple Exceptions and Specific Beats General

And the rule that Temporary HP not stacking makes it rather simple, if the attack deals more than the temp hp the minion is killed, if it deals less it doesn't

The only problem you'll run into is the genius who makes a Minion Battlerager Fighter whose Basic Attack has the Invigorating keyword

 

[GoLu]

The only problem you'll run into is the genius who makes a Minion Battlerager Fighter whose Basic Attack has the Invigorating keyword

That is actually a cool idea, if only for the sheer goofiness of it.

 

[Enaloindir]

To "solve" the problem with automatic damage and minion killing (which pops up its head more and more as you gain more levels), out group has been considering a "minion death save": if a minion takes damage that isn't the direct consequence of a hit (the paladin's mark, cleave damage, rain of steel,...), it must save or die.
Simple, elegant... but not tested yet.

- Enaloindir

 

[Drakhar]

A minion having 1 hp or 1 hp and 5 THP, really isn't going to make much difference when it gets smacked by the fighter for 10 damage now is it? I haven't seen any monster ability that gives allies a boatload of thp that make the Barbarian and Battlerager cry, so let the minions have their THP, it's not like it'll really make a difference, and if the hit does manage not to kill them? Well then you might just make your players a little more excited by thinking their facing a horde of normal monsters not a bunch of minions.

 

[GoLu]

A minion having 1 hp or 1 hp and 5 THP, really isn't going to make much difference when it gets smacked by the fighter for 10 damage now is it? I haven't seen any monster ability that gives allies a boatload of thp that make the Barbarian and Battlerager cry, so let the minions have their THP, it's not like it'll really make a difference, and if the hit does manage not to kill them? Well then you might just make your players a little more excited by thinking their facing a horde of normal monsters not a bunch of minions.

If it won't make a difference the vast majority of the time, is it worth the additional record keeping required to track temp hit points for a swarm of minions?

(I ask from a devil's advocate point of view. I've been considering giving all minions temp hp equal to their level, although I'm not sure if that's actually wise.)