Do lions mate in the woods?

[Kingreaper]

I have been working on a bunch of monsters for a Tarascon campaign; mostly corrupted humanoids.

But I've decided that a good early encounter would be some truly bestial opposition: Lions that have been fed on Tarrasque meat (which are, IMC, the most likely mounts to be encountered for the Tarascon army)


The encounter will be on a forest path, where several trees have been knocked down, and the remainder look almost gnawed through (these can be knocked down with an attack, causing damage and difficult terrain in a line)

I'm going to include three types of enemy: The Lioness, the Lion, and a load of cubs. The Lion protects the Lioness a bit, but mostly just fights, the Lioness protects the cubs a lot, and the cubs move around and attack in groups when possible.

Redeye Cub (Taron) Level 8 Minion Skirmisher
Small natural magical beast XP 88
Initiative +9 Senses Perception +11; low-light vision
HP 1; a missed attack never damages a minion.
Regeneration 3 ((goes down to -11))
AC 22; Fortitude 22; Reflex 20; Will 19
Speed 7
Bite (opportunity; at-will)
+13 vs AC; 6 damage. * can use this attack if a prone target in their square stands up.
Claw (standard; at-will)
+13 vs AC; 3 damage
Combat Advantage
* deals +3 damage on attacks made with combat advantage.
Pack tactics
* deals +1 damage per ally adjacent to it's target, to a maximum of +3
Sly Movement
* ignores difficult terrain when shifting.
Alignment Unaligned Languages —
Skills Athletics +14
Str 20 (+9) Dex 17 (+7) Wis 14 (+6)
Con 16 (+7) Int 4 (+1) Cha 9 (+3)
© 2009 Wizards of the Coast LLC, a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc. All rights reserved. This monster statistics block has been generated using the D&D Adventure Tools.


Redeye Lion Matriarch (Taron) Level 10 Elite Soldier (Leader)
Huge natural beast XP 1,250
Initiative +11 Senses Perception +13; low-light vision
HP 160; Bloodied 80
Regeneration 3 ((works to -17))
AC 26; Fortitude 24; Reflex 22; Will 20
Resist 5 necrotic
Saving Throws +3
Speed 8
Action Points 1
Claw (standard; at-will)
Reach 2; +17 vs AC; 1d6 + 5 damage, and ongoing 5 damage (save ends)
Hobbling Bite (opportunity; at-will)
+17 vs AC; 2d10 + 5 damage, * regains half that number of hitpoints, and the provoking action is lost.
Mobile Fury (standard; at-will)
* makes a claw attack then shifts two squares and makes a second claw attack
Leaping Pounce (standard; at-will)
* charges and makes two claw attacks against a single target. If both attacks hit, the target is knocked prone. Charging does not end *’s turn.
Protective Instinct (immediate interrupt; the first time a redeye lion cub would be reduced to zero hp ; at-will)
* uses Hobbling Bite or Leaping Pounce against the source of the damage.
Vicious Fury
Any target hit by * is marked until EYNT
Feeding Time (standard; recharge 6)
+15 vs Fortitude; 1d6 + 5 damage, the target is knocked prone, and all Redeye Cubs within burst 3 of the target may shift two squares and make a Bite attack.
Alignment Evil Languages —
Skills Athletics +18, Stealth +14
Str 27 (+13) Dex 19 (+9) Wis 17 (+8)
Con 10 (+5) Int 7 (+3) Cha 14 (+7)
© 2009 Wizards of the Coast LLC, a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc. All rights reserved. This monster statistics block has been generated using the D&D Adventure Tools.

What do people think? Does this seem like an interesting, tough, encounter for level 8/9, or over/underwhelming. If underwhelming, would simply leveling the monsters work or is there a deeper problem?

 

[Mesh Hong]

These look pretty interesting.

Redeye Matriarch

I havn't really done an indepth analysis but my gut feeling is that the Claw attack isn't doing enough damage. This is an elite so it should be getting 2 attacks a round, now you have that pretty well covered with Mobile Fury and Leaping pounce, but two lots of 1d6+5 damage is somehow underwhelming, even with the 5 ongoing damage.

"Low damage" for a level 10 soldier is 1d8+5 (13) so I would increase it to that or maybe run off its strength and make it 1d6+8 (14).

Hobling Bite

this attack is pretty nasty, 2d10+5 is high for a level 10 soldiers at will power (maybe you did this as a balance to the low standard attack?). I am not overly bothered by the high damage as it is avoidable so the PCs should only really trigger it once or maybe twice. My concern though is the healing (slightly) and the action denial.

I don't think the target should lose its action, at this level I might prefer to go with a straight "on hit target takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls until the start of its next turn", or "on hit the target is knocked prone".

For the healing I thinks it is too fiddly for what it achieves. I notice the creature has less HPs to compensate for some healing, but I feel you will be better off keeping the standard HPs and removing the conditional heal. Its an interesting idea but a healing effect should probably be teamed with a reliable attack, i.e. an encounter or recharge power. As an opportunity attack it will be just one more thing to forget in the heat of combat, or worse still might not come up at all.

Feeding Time

This I like a lot. You might want to rephrase it as

+15 vs Fortitude; 1d6 + 5 damage, the target is knocked prone, and all Redeye Cubs within burst 3 of the target may shift two squares and make a Bite attack as an immediate free action

but then I'm picky like that. One thing that I have found from only using my own designed creatures is that the clearer I word something the easier it is to arbitrate during combat.

General Comment

I find myself wondering why you have chosen soldier type for these creatures. Personally I think I would have gone with skirmishers, which would fit the mobile attack and charging attack powers, and also the extra damage against targets granting combat advantage for the cubs.

Using skirmishers would also allow you more damage output and make the creatures a little easier to hit.

But at the end of the day the choice between soldiers and skirmishers is just personal preference and design style.

Anyway I hope these brief thoughts help.

 

[Kingreaper]

These look pretty interesting.

Redeye Matriarch

I havn't really done an indepth analysis but my gut feeling is that the Claw attack isn't doing enough damage. This is an elite so it should be getting 2 attacks a round, now you have that pretty well covered with Mobile Fury and Leaping pounce, but two lots of 1d6+5 damage is somehow underwhelming, even with the 5 ongoing damage.

"Low damage" for a level 10 soldier is 1d8+5 (13) so I would increase it to that or maybe run off its strength and make it 1d6+8 (14).

1d6+8 would work, if it needs a buff.

For simplicities sake I am trying to keep my monsters to d6s and d10s most of the time. I have large quantities of those available, while fishing around for other dice at random types could slow things down (just a personal preference)

Hobling Bite

this attack is pretty nasty, 2d10+5 is high for a level 10 soldiers at will power (maybe you did this as a balance to the low standard attack?).

Partly, but partly it's something I've done with a lot of the enemies for this campaign. I should decrease the damage on the non-soldiers ones. I'll go back and do that for a few of them.

I am not overly bothered by the high damage as it is avoidable so the PCs should only really trigger it once or maybe twice. My concern though is the healing (slightly) and the action denial.

I don't think the target should lose its action, at this level I might prefer to go with a straight "on hit target takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls until the start of its next turn", or "on hit the target is knocked prone".

Hmmm, knocking prone on a hit does fit the fighting tactics a bit better, and it still does it's thing vs. movement, I like it. Think I will change it to that.

For the healing I thinks it is too fiddly for what it achieves. I notice the creature has less HPs to compensate for some healing, but I feel you will be better off keeping the standard HPs and removing the conditional heal. Its an interesting idea but a healing effect should probably be teamed with a reliable attack, i.e. an encounter or recharge power. As an opportunity attack it will be just one more thing to forget in the heat of combat, or worse still might not come up at all.

Perhaps I could add some kind of healing encounter attack vs. prone targets instead. People will probably be prone reasonably often, so it should come up.

Feeding Time

This I like a lot. You might want to rephrase it as

+15 vs Fortitude; 1d6 + 5 damage, the target is knocked prone, and all Redeye Cubs within burst 3 of the target may shift two squares and make a Bite attack as an immediate free action

Hmm, an immediate reaction probably. Would mean if I ever include a larger pack (doubtful, but possible) the cubs couldn't just dash around all over the place in one round.

but then I'm picky like that. One thing that I have found from only using my own designed creatures is that the clearer I word something the easier it is to arbitrate during combat.

Makes sense to me.

General Comment

I find myself wondering why you have chosen soldier type for these creatures. Personally I think I would have gone with skirmishers, which would fit the mobile attack and charging attack powers, and also the extra damage against targets granting combat advantage for the cubs.

The cubs are in fact skirmishers. The only soldier is the mother, due to a feeling that the mother should be rather defensive of her young.

It's either that, or she'd be eating them, which is a schtick I'm saving for the humanoids...


Thanks a lot for the feedback.

EDIT: oh, just noticed I never added the Patriarch. When I get back home I'll incorporate your comments, and post up the Patriarch.

 

[Garthanos]

I tried to make my save.. and failed....
ANSWER: of course not they do it in the savannas....

 

[Kingreaper]

The Patriarch. I've noticed how large it's attack difference is to the matriarch, I guess that's standard for brute V soldier though.


Redeye Lion Patriarch (Taron) Level 9 Elite Brute
Huge natural beast XP 1,000
Initiative +8 Senses Perception +12; low-light vision
HP 200; Bloodied 100
Regeneration 4 ((works to -19))
AC 21; Fortitude 23; Reflex 21; Will 19
Resist 5 necrotic
Saving Throws +3
Speed 6
Action Points 1
Claw (standard; at-will)
Reach 2; +12 vs AC; 2d6 + 5 damage, and ongoing 5 damage (save ends)
Tearing Bite (opportunity; at-will) • Healing
+12 vs AC; 1d10 + 5 damage, and * regains an equal number of hitpoints
Horrid Fury (standard; at-will)
* makes a bite attack and a claw attack, or two claw attacks
Leaping Pounce (standard; at-will)
* charges and makes two claw attacks against a single target. If both attacks hit, the target is knocked prone and grabbed. Charging does not end the horrid lion’s turn. While grabbing a target, * can make claw attacks against only that target
C Roar of the Great Beast (standard; recharge 6) • Thunder
Close blast 5; +10 vs Fortitude; 2d8 + 5 thunder damage, and the target is pushed 3 squares and marked
Chow Down (move; encounter) • Reliable
+12 vs AC; 3d6 + 5 And * regains that many hitpoints. This power recharges if * goes below 0 hp and recovers.
Protective Instinct (immediate interrupt; the first time a redeye lion matriarch would be bloodied or reduced to zero hp; at-will)
* uses Horrid Fury or Leaping Pounce against the source of the damage. This can be used once for the matriarch becoming bloodied, and once for her being reduced to 0
Alignment Evil Languages —
Skills Athletics +14, Stealth +13
Str 20 (+9) Dex 18 (+8) Wis 16 (+7)
Con 15 (+6) Int 6 (+2) Cha 10 (+4)
© 2009 Wizards of the Coast LLC, a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc. All rights reserved. This monster statistics block has been generated using the D&D Adventure Tools.

 

[Garthanos]

Small natural magical beast XP 88

Just to show I am actually reading ... does the cub lose its magic as it ages?

 

[Kingreaper]

Just to show I am actually reading ... does the cub lose its magic as it ages?

Ooh, good catch.

I templated the cubs on a liondrake, and the adults on a horrid lion. TBH if anything it should be the other way around, as the adults have eaten tarrasque, while the cubs are merely influenced by their parents alterations.

But they should probably both be the same, just gotta pick which one...

 

[the Jester]

Just a couple of notes.

1. The matriarch's damage is fine imho, as she also inflicts ongoing 5 damage. That's a huge factor.

2. I'm not clear on what your regeneration notation ("works to -19", for instance) means. Typically in 4e, regeneration works until the creature hits 0 hit points. While there's nothing wrong with making an exception, bear in mind that healing when you're below 0 starts from 0, so if the patriarch is at -15, he his regeneration actually counts as 19 extra hit points... and unless a pc knocks him down pretty hard, he'll just keep getting back up.

3. Do you really want to give the minion regeneration? The whole point of minions is to have negligible amounts of bookkeeping. If you're trying to "toughen them up" a little, I suggest adding "Resist 8 all" to them- it's more elegant and easier to track.

 

[Kingreaper]

Ah, yes, my regeneration is deviating from RAW, I should have noted more about how it works.

I am not counting it as healing from 0, because, well, if I was going to do that I'd just use the Troll ability.

By "works down to X" I mean: until they reach X, every round their HP increases by the regeneration amount.

For the minions this means: I take the damage they took, divide by 3, in that many rounds they get back up (unless they're hit again beforehand; in which case they're pretty certainly dead). Yes, it's more book-keeping than standard for minions, but I just think it'll play well in regards to atmosphere.

For the big beasties, someone will probably put the boot in. But if they don't, it'll be back up and running once it hits 1 again. Starting from prone, of course.