D&D 5E Do the official WotC adventures cheat with xp?

[Guest 6801328]

Out of the Abyss is the worst offender -- there's absolutely no way to level at the rate that adventure expects without heavily grinding random encounters.

Agreed. Endlessly slaying random monsters seems to be expected. That works, I guess. It's not really what I expect from an adventure that is advertised as going levels 1 to N.

Reminds me of the old "...and then a miracle occurs..." cartoon.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

XP from random encounters are hard to predict because, well, they are random. In the case of PotA, after errata, the 4 starting keeps are actually quite close to each other, so I don't expect all that much xp from random encounters between them.

Random encounters do not need to be random. If you think your party needs to have more encounters, plan them (from the encounters table if possible) and put them in. Then put it in play when you think it would work best.

 

[CapnZapp]

Agreed. Endlessly slaying random monsters seems to be expected.

No, that's the wrong conclusion to draw.

The correct conclusion is to use milestone levelling for that adventure. Read my posts.


Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

 

[Guest 6801328]

No, that's the wrong conclusion to draw.

The correct conclusion is to use milestone levelling for that adventure. Read my posts.


Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

I do. You are answering a question that is not being asked. You don't appear to understand the grievance.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Random encounters do not need to be random. If you think your party needs to have more encounters, plan them (from the encounters table if possible) and put them in. Then put it in play when you think it would work best.

Sure, that works. And that's the issue: the book claims to take you from level 1 to N but it really doesn't, unless you use suggested milestones, effectively doubling your progress rate, but that feels crappy.

This thread isn't (or wasn't originally) asking for advice of how to work around the problem; it was a general grumbling that the bottom of the apple sauce jar has a huge concavity, making it look bigger than it is. (It's true. Check it out at the supermarket next time you're there.)

 

[Ancalagon]

I did this for the 4 first dungeons in Princes of the Apocalypse:

Feathergale Spire: Supposed to get you from level 3 to 4, which would require 1800 xp per character. Actually gives 4175 xp for monsters. For a group of 5 players thatis only 46% of the xp needed.

Rivergard Keep: Supposed to get you from level 4 to 5, which would require 3800 xp per character. Actually gives 7900 xp for monsters. For a group of 5 players thatis only 42% of the xp needed.

Sacred Stone Monastery: Supposed to get you from level 4 to 5, which would require 7500 xp per character. Actually gives 13300 xp for monsters. For a group of 5 players thatis only 35% of the xp needed.

Scarlet Moon Hall: Supposed to get you from level 4 to 5, which would require 9000 xp per character. Actually gives 21700 xp for monsters (including all the neutrals you probably shouldn't kill). For a group of 5 players thatis only 48% of the xp needed.

In short, using the milestone xp system in Princes of the Apocalypse speeds up leveling by a factor of 2 to 3. If WotC wants people to level twice as fast, why didn't they simply lower the values in the xp per level table by half? What sense does it make if published adventures level your characters twice as fast as RAW homebrew adventures? Is this a marketing trick to make published adventures more popular?

There is an xp multiplier for groups of monsters is there not? A group of 6 goblins is worth more than 6 individual goblins, for example. Did you account for that?

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using EN World mobile app

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Well, no -- I'm saying that I had to backfill XP because it's not all there.

It's close, though. It's very hard to estimate because of things like random encounters and travel time. (The random encounters are worth a LOT more, relative to dungeons, in the early parts of the adventure.) I'd say Princes of the Apocalypse comes pretty close to keeping the PCs at the appropriate level; you'll only be 1 level shy during the early dungeons, and should catch up by the later dungeons, even if you just earn the XP face-value of the monsters. Out of the Abyss is the worst offender -- there's absolutely no way to level at the rate that adventure expects without heavily grinding random encounters.

I was worried about this but I'm finding that with my group of 6 PC that are probably 2-3 levels below where they "should" be are still having little issue pimp slapping the things in their way. Adding in more PC really blows the whole CR system away I'm finding. We are in Chapter 14 and they are 8th-9th level and it hasn't been an issue. I think they are supposed to be 15th by the final encounter but I'm guessing they will be 12th max. Based on how a fight against Graz'zt went so far I don't think they are going to have problems barring bad luck.

I hate milestone XP with a capital H, but I can see how it works for some groups just fine. I've hit them with quest XP but not going crazy with it. I do give XP for overcoming monsters, even if they didn't kill it. Maybe not full all the time but it depends on how they overcame the challenge.

 

[Tormyr]

There is an xp multiplier for groups of monsters is there not? A group of 6 goblins is worth more than 6 individual goblins, for example. Did you account for that?

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using EN World mobile app

That is for estimating the "difficulty" of an encounter, but the actual experience gained for defeating all the goblins is just the experience for 1 goblin * 6. However, a DM can easily use the multiplier for experience gained as well.

 

[Ancalagon]

That is for estimating the "difficulty" of an encounter, but the actual experience gained for defeating all the goblins is just the experience for 1 goblin * 6. However, a DM can easily use the multiplier for experience gained as well.

Ah, it will teach me to post without the books at hand! Ah well.

I will note that I use a pseudo xp method. I give out xp after each session, but it is totally eyeballed. The only calculation I do is "At this xp rate, how much sessions until next level". I can't be bothered to do the exact calculations, my time as a gm can be better spent elsewhere.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using EN World mobile app

 

[BookBarbarian]

Sure, that works. And that's the issue: the book claims to take you from level 1 to N but it really doesn't, unless you use suggested milestones, effectively doubling your progress rate, but that feels crappy.

This thread isn't (or wasn't originally) asking for advice of how to work around the problem; it was a general grumbling that the bottom of the apple sauce jar has a huge concavity, making it look bigger than it is. (It's true. Check it out at the supermarket next time you're there.)

It's not enough to ruin published APs for me, you had to ruin grocery store applesauce too!