D&D 5E Do the official WotC adventures cheat with xp?

[Tobold]

On page 15 of the PHB there is a table which is dear to the heart of every player, showing how many xp you need to earn to get to the next level. The DMG page 260-261 explains how to give xp for defeated monsters, non-combat challenges, and milestones. But if I follow these rules, even with generous interpretation, in a published WotC adventure, my characters level up far slower than the adventure suggests.

Example: Princes of the Apocalypse says in a boxed text on page 41: "Feathergale Spire is designed for a 3rd-level party, Rivergard Keep works best for a 4th-level party, ... Each outpost the characters overcome should advance them at least one level." For Feathergale Spire, assuming a standard group of 5 players, getting from level 3 to level 4 means handing out 8,000 xp. But all the enemies combined in the outpost are worth only just over half that, and even handing out a minor and major milestone reward leaves the players well short of level 4.

What is your experience with character advancement in the WotC adventures? Is it all story-based advancement, that is you just give a level to everybody at the end of a dungeon or story event without considering the xp rules and tables? What if, like it is well possible in Princes of the Apocalypse the players don't do all the dungeons, or don't do them in the "right" order?

 

[Nailen]

I am running PotA at the moment. Party only at third level but they seem happy with the event based levelling idea.
I think they are about to do Rivergard Keep ahead of Feathergale Spire.
I was thinking about what they need to do to 'complete' Rivergard. I reckon defeating Jolliver, Shoalar and the CW Priest and escaping alive is probably enough. Based on the book text that the rest of the occupants will flee due to lack of leadership. Will see how it plays out.
I think it makes it easier for me not to have to track xp per battle.

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[CapnZapp]

On page 15 of the PHB there is a table which is dear to the heart of every player, showing how many xp you need to earn to get to the next level. The DMG page 260-261 explains how to give xp for defeated monsters, non-combat challenges, and milestones. But if I follow these rules, even with generous interpretation, in a published WotC adventure, my characters level up far slower than the adventure suggests.

Example: Princes of the Apocalypse says in a boxed text on page 41: "Feathergale Spire is designed for a 3rd-level party, Rivergard Keep works best for a 4th-level party, ... Each outpost the characters overcome should advance them at least one level." For Feathergale Spire, assuming a standard group of 5 players, getting from level 3 to level 4 means handing out 8,000 xp. But all the enemies combined in the outpost are worth only just over half that, and even handing out a minor and major milestone reward leaves the players well short of level 4.

What is your experience with character advancement in the WotC adventures? Is it all story-based advancement, that is you just give a level to everybody at the end of a dungeon or story event without considering the xp rules and tables? What if, like it is well possible in Princes of the Apocalypse the players don't do all the dungeons, or don't do them in the "right" order?

Yes.

Except one thing: it's not cheating.

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[Tobold]

Cheating in the sense that if you read on the back of the book "campaign from level 1 to 15" and you know how many encounters it would take to get regularly from level 1 to 15, you are led to believe that the book has far more content than it actually has.

 

[CapnZapp]

Cheating in the sense that if you read on the back of the book "campaign from level 1 to 15" and you know how many encounters it would take to get regularly from level 1 to 15, you are led to believe that the book has far more content than it actually has.

But now that you know that's not the case, it no longer is.

They're just treating xp will all the detail and importance it requires: none at all.

You want to track xp old school, you can easily come up with wandering monsters or sidetrek adventures to cover the difference.

Most importantly, they have never tried to hide this fact. There's no conspiracy, no cheating here folks.


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[S'mon]

But now that you know that's not the case, it no longer is.

They're just treating xp will all the detail and importance it requires: none at all.

You want to track xp old school, you can easily come up with wandering monsters or sidetrek adventures to cover the difference.

Most importantly, they have never tried to hide this fact. There's no conspiracy, no cheating here folks. ��


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I would say that was bollocks. They certainly do not indicate on their 1-15 campaign adventures that they actually contain less than half the content needed to get from 1-15 at book rate.

Compare with Paizo APs where they do actually contain the necessary xp for the listed advancement. So does every pre 5e adventure with a listed advancement range I own.

 

[Nailen]

Seems a rather pointless argument.
PotA pretty much recommends doing event based levelling. If you do that then you'll manage the levels indicated.
If you don't like that method, then there's plenty you can do to make it up - side treks and lots of random encounters should do the trick.

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[Caliban]

The books all pretty much ignore the guidelines for XP and Treasure. You either get way too much of both or almost nothing.

I remember playing through "Hoard of the Dragon Queen" and not getting a single magic item on my character until level 8. (A few magic items were found before then, but not many.)

Then I ended up with Haziwran - a legendary, sentient greatsword. Someone else received a legendary black dragon mask, and we also found a Staff of Fire. All around the same time.

 

[TallIan]

It seems to be the norm for most published adventures, I don't mind it so much as it leaves plenty of room for the DM to play in (good RPing, story advancement, side quests, etc.)

I found this to be a great resource.

I found my players were more happy about event based XP than monster kills anyway since they could find creative ways around mooks without worrying about losing XP (Something I would have awarded XP for anyway, but they didn't know that).

 

[Bitbrain]

Storm King's Thunder outright says that the adventure path is designed using the milestone system rather than XP, so the players should level up as they complete certain events in the adventure, and not because they gain enough XP to level up.