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Do you really like Star Wars?

What do yuo like about Star Wars?


Orius

Legend
I generally like most of it. I don't think Lucas is as bad as some would say. I don't hate the new movies either. The EU tends to be a mixed bag because there's different writers involved, so there's conflicting styles and all that. Some stuff is great, like Zahn's trilogy, but there's a lot of junk too. For example, Kevin Anderson has some good ideas, but he throws in a lot of crap and silly villains, and his style really doesn't seem to mesh well with Star Wars.
 

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Ranger REG said:
Are you saying that George Lucas work well with mediocre actors?

As you said, the fault do not lie with the actors but the director.

I can't say with any certainty how much is Lucas and how much is the actors. All I know is that I never got the impression that Natalie Portman (to go back to the most egregious example) was even trying, whereas I always got the impression that Mark Hamill was at least giving it his all.
 

Ranger REG

Explorer
I don't know if she could express well as Queen Amidala, but as Padme, she could have expressed more. I guessed it grossed her out that her character is supposed to fall in love with such a young kid portrayed by Jake Lloyd. ;)
 

mhacdebhandia

Explorer
The original trilogy is clearly superior - and The Empire Strikes Back, which lacks either Lucas' dubious directorial touch nor marketing-derived cutesy teddy-bear people, is clearly the superior of the three.

That said - I don't mind the prequels. True, I'm unlikely to ever watch The Phantom Menace seriously again, it being much better suited to be thrown on at parties for mocking purposes (and I'm not entirely joking when I suggest that a DVD of Weird Al Yankovic's "The Saga Begins" video clip would be a better version of the film); however, I'd still rate both prequels released so far as being rather a cut above the general run of Hollywood action movies.

It's a shame they don't measure up to the stature of the originals, but I was never so fanatical about them as to be hanging out for twenty years for more Star Wars. I never got into the novels or other media as substitutes, so clearly my hunger was not great.

I'm also unsurprised by the pandering to the lowest common denominator of childish entertainment Lucas has done in the prequels. How could I be, after the Ewoks? Besides, it's a well-known fact that entertainers in general "pussify" in their old age - Eddie Murphy produced Delirious when he was 22, for example, but by the age of 35 he was starring in family-friendly pap like The Nutty Professor, and it's all downhill from there. That Lucas has followed the same regrettable trajectory comes as no surprise.
 

Klaus

First Post
Let us not forget that Ewoks are savage cannibals and one of them dies on-screen (in a very "Awwww..." moment, to boot!).

Hmm... Wonder what happened to the Imperial soldiers after the battle ended. All we saw were those empty helmets...
 

WizarDru

Adventurer
mhacdebhandia said:
Besides, it's a well-known fact that entertainers in general "pussify" in their old age - Eddie Murphy produced Delirious when he was 22, for example, but by the age of 35 he was starring in family-friendly pap like The Nutty Professor, and it's all downhill from there. That Lucas has followed the same regrettable trajectory comes as no surprise.
Liam Neeson, Jack Nicholson, Bill Murray, Sean Connery, Clint Eastwood, Mel Gibson, James Cromwell, Martin Scorsese, Milos Forman, Donald Sutherland, Peter O'Toole, Al Pacino and William Friedkin holding on line one, for you. Diane Wiest, Meryl Streep, Nicole Kidman, Glenn Close, CCH Pounder and Monica Bellucci on line two.

I'd say it's a well-known fact that Lucas knows that kids buy toys in much larger numbers than aging geeks buy toys. Economies of scale, and all that. But getting older hardly means getting 'soft'. It does mean that sometimes you want to make a production you can share with your kids or grand-kids....hence Richard Harris' contribution to Harry Potter. But just a couple of years earlier he'd been in 'The Field', 'Unforgiven', 'Smilla's Sense of Snow' and 'Gladiator'. Another problem, of course, is that fewer roles are offered to older actors, as they get marginalized. Sean Connery's pretty rare in being able to get action hero roles through his 60s into his 70s. :)
 

barsoomcore

Unattainable Ideal
Wait, Monica Bellucci? On Line Two?

Quick, how do I get to Line Two?

:D

I just watched my VHS copy of Star Wars last night. You know what? It's AWESOME. Lucas is a gifted cinematic story-teller. I mean it. Just think of the opening shot. It tells you everything you need to know, it makes your jaw drop straight into your lap, and it's utterly thrilling from the get-go. And it's like nothing ever seen before.

I think we forget what a shock Star Wars was when it first appeared. There'd never been ANYTHING like it. So much in that film is so astoundingly original, even as it's all being ripped off from old-time serials and Akira Kurosawa's classic adventure films. So much is now stuff that's passed into our modern lexicon, we forget that Star Wars is the first place we ever saw it. Did a hero ever walk into a bar full of bizarre aliens before? Did a sword ever flash and glow on screen before? Was there ever a space battle like the struggle above the Death Star? An idea like the Force guiding heroes? Tractor beams and blasters and space smugglers and Jedi mind tricks and Star Destroyers and the good Rebellion agains the Evil Empire...

Did ANYTHING ever sound like a frickin' TIE fighter before?

Sure, it was all a pastiche of zillions of sources. But the cinematic storytelling of it -- you can turn off the sound of Star Wars it's nearly as exciting -- you don't need to hear the dialog to understand what's happening. Likewise, you can just listen to it and it's exciting -- the soundtrack is so amazing, so detailed and so unique it carries you along with it. It's amazing, it really is.

Star Wars was a work of genius every bit as surely as was The Seven Samurai. But whereas Kurosawa kept pulling up new ideas and new images and new ways of telling stories, Lucas has been content to simply milk this one cow for the rest of his career, continually diluting any content that might be slightest bit offensive.

Consider: In Star Wars, Princess Leia is TORTURED by a giant black floating nightmare ball with a HUGE NEEDLE, Darth Vader kills a guy in a conference room just for being uppity (after we've watched him murder a Rebel commander for a similar reason), dozens of Rebel soldiers die painful, horrible deaths on screen, as do dozens of stormtroopers (many with smoking holes burned through their bodies), a barfly gets his arm hacked off (with blood all over the floor), a greedy alien gets blown away by a cocky pilot (who shot first), our hero's foster parents are shown as black, smoking corpses twisted in their death agonies, dozens of bodies of innocent Jawas are heaped on a smouldering fire, Rebel pilots scream in agony as they are enveloped in flames, and an entire planet (which are led to believe is prosperous and well-populated) is destroyed by the bad guys -- which, far from being glossed over, is pointed out specifically as involving millions of souls crying out and being extinguished.

You just don't get bad guys like that anymore. Jabba the Hutt? Spare me. Darth Maul? Whatever. Until he kills Qui-Gon (in what looks to me like a pretty fair fight, considering he's outnumbered), Maul doesn't do anything all that bad. Neither does anyone else these days. Oh, except Sebulba. Boy, there's a villain. Even the Emperor in the old movies never accomplished what Grand Moff Tarkin did as a villain. Tarkin and Vader were the ultimate bad guys. Vader was never really the same afterwards. Sort of like Simon and Garfunkel.

NONE of the following movies accomplished anything like what the first does, artistically, and that's largely because Lucas got more and more and more cautious. Empire is pretty good, and has MUCH better dialog, but it lacks the mythic beauty of the original. People like it better because of the superior dialog and the great work Carrie Fisher and Harrison Ford do of pretending they're in a romantic comedy. Jedi has little to recommend it, and the later films even less.

I kind of liked TPM when it first came out. MacGregor and Neeson tried really hard, and their friendship rings true. And Portman worked for me -- I see a queen in her performance, though maybe it's just those freaky costumes she's wearing. Those rocked. But on repeat viewings, the creakiness of the plot and the lack of any emotional cost to the heroes make it worthless.

And you know, you can see this trend even in the first film -- in the landing after the Death Star battle and the subsequent throne room scene, there's no sense that any cost has been paid to purchase this victory. Nobody mourns the fallen, nobody is wondering if it was worth it in the end.

Compare that with Kurosawa's endings -- The Seven Samurai with the graves and the singing farmers, The Hidden Fortress with the terror of Tahei and Matsushichi and their subsequent reformation, Yojimbo with the lone samurai still on his way. Kurosawa is superior because he makes grand adventure tales that nevertheless acknowledge the price paid by the heroes. Lucas' growing unwillingness to portray the real cost of the struggle is robbing his films of their power.

Says me.
 

barsoomcore said:
Lucas' growing unwillingness to portray the real cost of the struggle is robbing his films of their power.

I'd say that's the part that's not at all influenced by Kurosawa, but the other major influence on Star Wars: Saturday Matinee/Flash Godon type things.
 

Jamdin

Explorer
I like some of the characters (Han, Chewie, Ben and Vader) but I do not like Star Wars as a whole. The movies are entertaining and I have only read a few of the books. To me, I enjoy the original trilogy over the newer movies.
 

Klaus

First Post
Barsoomcore -> Let us not forget Lucas' ultimate screw up in the end of Star Wars: Chewie gets no medal!!!
 

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