D&D 5E Does anyone else find Nova-ing is not a problem in 5e?

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

That is terrible advice. All you do is encourage doing novas. What you should do instead is just allowing the nova only to have the paladin realize he just has no resources left for the real fight.

No, it's very useful advice. Paladins aren't stupid, they won't fall for the same trick twice. Also it doesn't make sense to insert phony boss fights in every story, and even if it did it's a waste of playtime that could be used for something more interesting instead of just a meaningless fight to drain PC resources.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

No, it's very useful advice. Paladins aren't stupid, they won't fall for the same trick twice. Also it doesn't make sense to insert phony boss fights in every story, and even if it did it's a waste of playtime that could be used for something more interesting instead of just a meaningless fight to drain PC resources.

No it is terrible. I edited my post above.
You may in a few cases add some more hp. But if the nova character always has to nova, all other characters will feel like they don't contribute at all.
If nova is a problem at your table with your gane style just limit divine smite to once per round or once per action. It is a lot more honest than secretly devaluing the paladin damage.

 

[S'mon]

The easiest way to balance for novas in 5E is just to give enemies more HP, so that they are still standing after the alpha strike is over. Feels a bit cheezy, but better than the alternative of boring fights that are over in 1 round.

I guess this is the default situation IMC, just by using the listed monster stats. I recall the PCs once made the mistake of taking on 16 CR 3 Veterans (at around 12th level) - without massive area effect damage there was no way they were going to win, and indeed they soon had to flee. Tons of fairly low CR 5e critters have tons of hp, and groups of them just aren't going to go down in 1 round to hp attrition (mind-affecting magic may be a different matter, depending on saves).

I see big fights commonly take 6-8 rounds in 5e, whereas in 3e/PF 2-3 rounds was typical.

Edit: I agree though if you are using a single high CR enemy in 5e, they may need a lot of hp. I find using
Pathfinder stats and adding +50% to hp works well (& reduce PF AC for 5e, of course).

 

[S'mon]

That is terrible advice. All you do is encourage doing novas. What you should do instead is just allowing the nova only to have the paladin realize he just has no resources left for the real fight.
You should play the game which usually has the characters left with some uncertanity if novaing now is better than conserve resources.

Tough fights with lots of enemies who have lots of hp, and several smaller fights with weaker foes, both work well* in 5e I find. Which is why as per my OP I don't experience a problem with PC use of nova tactics - it doesn't negate challenge in 5e.

*Anything can be taken too far, I think I once had 24 vrocks attack, and soon realised that chewing through all their hp would take all night. Luckily the PCs fled.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

No it is terrible. I edited my post above.
You may in a few cases add some more hp. But if the nova character always has to nova, all other characters will feel like they don't contribute at all.
If nova is a problem at your table with your gane style just limit divine smite to once per round or once per action. It is a lot more honest than secretly devaluing the paladin damage.

No it's great. Your reasoning is what's terrible.
After the first round is over the real fight begins. Players don't really notice who did the most damage, but who did the killing blow.

 

[FrogReaver]

No it's great. Your reasoning is what's terrible.
After the first round is over the real fight begins. Players don't really notice who did the most damage, but who did the killing blow.

Your players are weird!

 

[UngeheuerLich]

No it's great. Your reasoning is what's terrible.
After the first round is over the real fight begins. Players don't really notice who did the most damage, but who did the killing blow.

Sounds like fair play if your enemies have x+50 hp where x is exactly the damage dealt in the first round...

What that leads to is your players novaing even more and building for more damage and leaving them without resources in later rounds...

Your method is lazy. Maybe you should think about designing adventures and encounters in a way that just blowing all resources in the beginning is not required or smart.

I can understand that your players do nova... their experience should be that no matter what they do, its never enough.

Sent from my GT-I9506 using EN World mobile app

 

[Krachek]

Novaing and optimizing follow the same path.
Sharp shooter, GWM, smite, action surge, eldritch blast are the main tools for both.

SS and GWM have been discuss enough.

MC abuse have been discuss a lot too.
MC can produce quadratic like effect. An Ek who take 2 level of paladin could at high level use an impressive number of smithing dice,
A wizard with 2 level of Fighter can use 2 high level spell in a same round. The more the wizard level increase the more this effect is important.

Simple nerf could be applied.

Smite can be limit to 2 time per round, 3 if you want to include a reaction. A full paladin wont see much difference, but it wont be combined with smite,

Action surge can be limited as well. At level two allow only one additional attack. Allowing multiple attack or cast spell only at level 5 fighter. Again a full Fighter wont see much difference.

 

[Gladius Legis]

Raising monster HPs and limiting Smites per round are BOTH lazy solutions.

Just (a) design your encounters better and (b) design your workdays better so the players actually have to face attrition.

 

[jayoungr]

OK.

Oh, I just remembered a little more detail: the Battlemaster does not have Great Weapon Fighter. She's a dual-wielding dex fighter with two enchanted rapiers, one of which is a dragon-slaying weapon. The other is a simple +1 weapon. Also, the party was relatively fresh at the time, as I recall.

Did it bug you or damage the game? My thinking in this thread was that I see Nova-ing in 5e but it doesn't seem to harm play. Whereas in 3e/PF it created what felt like a degenerate scry-buff-teleport-fry type play style.

Well, the player definitely enjoyed it! I don't know if I'd say it damaged the game, exactly, but it was a definite wake-up call to me that I needed to start making the encounters harder. The adult dragon (green, fwiw) was surrounded by minions, but it was supposed to be the centerpiece of that fight, and one PC in a party of four dropped it to half hitpoints in the first round. I think the entire fight lasted maybe three rounds, and none of the PCs was seriously injured.