D&D (2024) Doesn't Eldritch Knight's new War Magic seem to grant overpowered at-will damage?

[mellored]

Not really. It will still be ahead as EK's also get masteries.

Champions will continue to be mediocre because WOTC designed them assuming anyone who picks them either doesn't care that they're weaker or won't notice.

I agree Champion is behind in damage, but you will pick up an offensive and defensive style (+1AC), and also presumably your adding +Con instead of +Int.

So you end up with something more well rounded. Which is fine for a generic fighter.

 

[wicked cool]

I would use the tv show sharpe for reference. I season the train to shoot faster (feats) plus mercers rules for guns.

How does pathfinder handle guns? A few of their mi postures have guns

 

[mellored]

How does pathfinder handle guns? A few of their mi postures have guns

I think you have the wrong thread.

But PF2 guns are the same as crossbows, in that it takes one of your 3 actions (i.e. bonus action) to reload them.

 

[wicked cool]

I think you have the wrong thread.

But PF2 guns are the same as crossbows, in that it takes one of your 3 actions (i.e. bonus action) to reload them.

Yup oops

 

[Weiley31]

Eldritch Knights can probably still use Magic Guns tho if they are going ranged.

 

[ECMO3]

Am I missing something that is supposed to balance this? Are there hidden features that Battle Master and Champion get that raise their damage to a similar range? Is it just acknowledged that Eldritch Knight is the king of fighter damage, and the other subclasses have something else to balance it with?

Yes you are missing something.

To use War Magic, you have to use a magic action, that means it is one cantrip.

So take your 20th level Eldritch Knight. With a Greatsword, a 20 strength and a 20 intelligence using Warmagic to cast green flame blade he is going to do 4d6+3d8+10 (37.5) to one target and 3d8+5 (19.5) to a second target, if there happens to be a second target within 5 feet.

The same EK attacking 4 times as an action will do 8d6+20 (48) to up to 4 targets, you don't have any conditions to that, as long as you can reach them and attack them you get that damage. So using the cantrip is an extra 9 points of damage if (and only if) there is another enemy in 5 feet and it uses the Eldritch Knight's bonus action to do it, and he had to boost intelligence to 20 to do that. Same with Booming Blade - you get the extra damage only if the enemy moves.

Also these are usable on a melee attack only from within 5 feet. No using ranged weapons, no using reach weapons.

If you are comparing to other fighter subclasses, a Battlemaster can add 1d12 plus a pretty big condition or effect on an attack 6 times a short rest (which is almost once a round).

A champion is going to be scoring a crit on an 18.

So yes they have subclass abilities that do more damage too.

War Magic is a nice buff on an EK from levels 7-10 and in that range they are probably the highest damage fighter, but not so much at other levels.

What really makes the EK so strong is not the blade cantrips, it is the shield spell.

 

[ECMO3]

They should have had at-will weapon maneuvers on par with weapon cantrips, and let all fighters make a maneuver and a basic attack at 5th level. It would give more oomph to the fighter who otherwise is making the same number of attacks as the spellcasters.

I would be ok with more variety and weapon maneuvers as cantrips for casters, but I don't want any maneuvers for non-casters as a class option. If fighters want to do that kind of stuff they should pick up magic from a dip or subclass or feat I don't think it should be a class thing and the basic things you can do with weapons should be the same for all classes.

They could offer a maneuver option instead of an attack, kind of like the Dragonborn does with breath weapon or kind of like the current grapple works. So you can use one of your attacks and instead try to do something else. Again though iI don't think it should be available only to certain classes. I think it should be available to all classes or a function of subclass, race or feat.

 

[Kurotowa]

Yes you are missing something.

To use War Magic, you have to use a magic action, that means it is one cantrip.

Are you looking at the right version? The opening post and thread tag show we're talking about the Revised PHB 2024, not the PHB 2014. So the topic at hand is the UA7 Eldritch Knight, which has a different version of War Magic that lets them substitute one of their attacks from the Attack action with a cantrip.

Now, I haven't run the numbers myself, not do I particularly want to invest the time in doing so for pre-balance playtest material using spells from a pre-Revision supplement. On the whole, your point about other subclasses getting their own damage increases holds up. And given that the 2014 Eldritch Knight is dismissed by nearly everyone as terribly weak, I don't see the improvement being a bad thing.

 

[mellored]

Yes you are missing something.

To use War Magic, you have to use a magic action, that means it is one cantrip.

In the playtest, which is what this thread is for, it replace one attack of the attack action. So at level 15...

EK has a 50% chance of adding +3d6 to one attack (6.75).

Compared to 10% chance of adding 2d6 to 2 attacks and advantage on your third is something like (2.8).
Assuming flame tongue, your adding (5.6)

Or adding +1d8 on a hit (4.5) and some maneuver for the Battlemaster.

No idea what the 4th subclass will be. They had an Unarmed brawler, but not enough people liked it.

EK is the damage leader here, but not by a huge margin.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

I would be ok with more variety and weapon maneuvers as cantrips for casters, but I don't want any maneuvers for non-casters as a class option. If fighters want to do that kind of stuff they should pick up magic from a dip or subclass or feat I don't think it should be a class thing and the basic things you can do with weapons should be the same for all classes.

Sure, why should the master of weapons get anything special when using weapons compared to a wizard. If they wanted to git gud they should have rolled one of the real classes.