D&D 5E Dragon Fire - the Drogon Initiative

[dave2008]

Might want to think about balancing the effects of dragons breath against the abilities of heroes and not the Lannister mooks.


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What is your suggestion? IMO I am balancing for heroes as the mooks would be incinerated instantly, no need for more complex dragon fire rules

 

[Shasarak]

After watching the latest GoT episode it got me thinking about dragon fire. One thing I really liked was the continuing chaos and damage caused by the dragon fire after the initial attack. In 4e I got tired of so many monsters inflicting ongoing damage, so I started dropping it from my monsters designs. However, after seeing the episode I really want to bring it back with a vengeance (for ancient dragons at least). What do you think?

How about:
Fire Breath (Recharge 5-6). The dragon exhales fire in a 90-foot cone. Each creature in the area must make a DC 24 Dexterity saving throw, taking 91 (26d6) fire damage and is ignited on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. A creature or object ignited by dragon fire cannot take reactions, has disadvantage on its attacks and concentration checks, and takes 21 (6d6) fire damage at the start of each of its turns until it is extinguished. An ignited creature or object can be extinguished with the equivalent of 5 gallons of water or by taking an action and a successful DC 15 Dexterity saving throw to extinguish the flames.

This, I think, begins to model the effects produced by Drogon in "The Spoils of War." Any suggestions.

What the heck is the CR on that thing?

 

[Ilbranteloth]

I am specifically trying to emulate some of the elements of dragon fire visualized in the last GoT episode (here is the scene if your interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yehoQilXYrM ). Such As:

1) Continued aggressive burning: ongoing fire damage
2) Searing pain and disorientation: no reactions and disadvantage on attacks and concentration checks.

In the scene the victims couldn't do anything but wildly attempt to put out the flames engulfing their bodies. I didn't want to take away all actions (PCs are heroes after all), but on second thought I should probably remove bonus actions as well. Maybe I should review the conditions again and see if there is a way to simplify this part. I also thought about imposing a limited blindness, but with disadvantage on attacks instead.

I have rules that fire of any sort can ignite things. Fire is one of the most universally feared things from animals to humans, and I think it should work that way in the game world. Dragonfire and magical fire are more powerful than mundane fire. I like the idea of immolation causing some effect. It really wouldn't be any different than fear taking away their actions temporarily.

 

[cmad1977]

What is your suggestion? IMO I am balancing for heroes as the mooks would be incinerated instantly, no need for more complex dragon fire rules

I guess I'm saying using the episode as basis for the mechanics might be a little wonky as all the effects of the dragon breath only affected the mooks.

Might also want to think about adjusting adding some spells to players lists granting abilities to negate these effects.


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[Imaculata]

Agreed. Heat and fire, and our ability to resist them, is a complex issue. It is best to not try to get to literal. Personally I am going for something more cinematic than realistic

Just be careful that you don't unbalance the encounter too much in the process. Unless your goal is to cause a party wipe, which I presume is not the case.

 

[dave2008]

What the heck is the CR on that thing?

I haven't tried to calculate that, but if this is the only change you made it would at most bump it up to CR25 I think. You could of course not change the CR at all if you gave it a cost of some or all of the legendary actions.

 

[dave2008]

I guess I'm saying using the episode as basis for the mechanics might be a little wonky as all the effects of the dragon breath only affected the mooks.

I think I see your point. However, my point was not to recreate the scene, but draw inspiration from it. I want PCs of all levels to fear dragon fire more.

Might also want to think about adjusting adding some spells to players lists granting abilities to negate these effects.

I'm not sure that they do. Resistance will reduce the damage, extinguishing the flames (which takes care of the effects and ongoing damage) can be accomplished with an action and a save or spells like "Create Water" and "Mold Earth." In addition, by the time PCs see this they could have access to "Wish."

 

[dave2008]

Just be careful that you don't unbalance the encounter too much in the process. Unless your goal is to cause a party wipe, which I presume is not the case.

To be clear, this is not something I am working on for a current campaign. However, i am of the opinion that if adventurers are going to challenge an ancient red dragon, and they are not prepared, it should be a TPK. If they are prepared, these extra effects don't add a whole lot of danger (yet - I may make it more deadly . FYI, IMO part of being properly prepared is being at least level 17-20. High level PCs generally don't have a lot to fear from an ancient red dragon in the MM (without some DM work), I'm always looking to change that.

 

[Ilbranteloth]

I guess I'm saying using the episode as basis for the mechanics might be a little wonky as all the effects of the dragon breath only affected the mooks.

Might also want to think about adjusting adding some spells to players lists granting abilities to negate these effects.


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Yes, but that's because the mooks followed orders and didn't run away. All of the important characters:

1. Weren't in the path of the dragon fire on the first pass (because it was making a hole for the Dothraki to exploit)
2. Ran or were pushed out of the way of the dragon fire.

I'll also point out that dragons age much faster in GoT

RAW, an adult red dragon has a 60 foot one, and an ancient has a 90 foot cone. Compared to GoT (or Smaug), these seem to be much shorter ranges. I'm not a fan of the D&D shaped cone, either. I'd prefer it to be twice as long as wide, but RAW that 90 foot cone covers an area 90 feet wide.

So that's a 90 foot long wall of fire, and since I've always considered dragon fire similar to magical fire (although in AD&D it was equated to a fireball spell which was stronger than magical fire), I'd have no problem with it igniting everything flammable in the area.

The rules generally state that clothing and equipment that is worn doesn't catch on fire. I've always found that absurd. The saving throw is enough to me, and then you have to deal with the flaming equipment and spend a round putting it out or doffing it. Again, I prefer fire to be something more than, "oh, that's only going to cause 2d6 damage, I can handle that."

In AD&D, fireball melted soft metals like gold, silver, and copper (and was why Ernie Gygax invented cone of cold because he wanted to get around the fact that they were melting their treasure). In fact, I'd have no problem with dragon fire being capable of imposing the effects of heat metal for a round, or being immolated by fire in general having that affect as well.

The important thing about boosting the power of fire is that the players have to understand that fire is as dangerous in the game world as it is here. As long as they realize that it is much, much more deadly than the RAW, then they'll react accordingly.

 

[dave2008]

In AD&D, fireball melted soft metals like gold, silver, and copper (and was why Ernie Gygax invented cone of cold because he wanted to get around the fact that they were melting their treasure). In fact, I'd have no problem with dragon fire being capable of imposing the effects of heat metal for a round, or being immolated by fire in general having that affect as well.

I like that idea (heat metal). My goodness we can make dragon fire truly frightening with all of the options presented in this thread!