D&D 5E Dragon Fire - the Drogon Initiative

[dave2008]

After watching the latest GoT episode it got me thinking about dragon fire. One thing I really liked was the continuing chaos and damage caused by the dragon fire after the initial attack. In 4e I got tired of so many monsters inflicting ongoing damage, so I started dropping it from my monsters designs. However, after seeing the episode I really want to bring it back with a vengeance (for ancient dragons at least). What do you think?

How about:
Original revised Fire Breath:

Spoiler

Fire Breath (Recharge 5-6). The dragon exhales fire in a 90-foot cone. Each creature in the area must make a DC 24 Dexterity saving throw, taking 91 (26d6) fire damage and is ignited on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. A creature or object ignited by dragon fire cannot take reactions, has disadvantage on its attacks and concentration checks, and takes 21 (6d6) fire damage at the start of each of its turns until it is extinguished. An ignited creature or object can be extinguished with the equivalent of 5 gallons of water or by taking an action and a successful DC 15 Dexterity saving throw to extinguish the flames.

This, I think, begins to model the effects produced by Drogon in "The Spoils of War." Any suggestions.

EDIT: Ancient Red Dragon update:

Spoiler

This is an update to the MM Ancient Red Dragon incorporating some suggestions form this thread. Please note taht because I also gave the dragon "Magic Resistance" and higher damage it increase the CR to 25.

 

[LordEntrails]

Why no reactions? And since you are taking ongoing damage, you already have to make a concentration check, why disadvantage?

I like elder dragons causing ongoing fire damage,but I don't see the need for the two additional penalties you apply.

 

[iserith]

Perhaps instead of ongoing fire damage, which you could say is just sort of lumped in with the initial damage fictionally speaking, you have the breath weapon create a zone where creatures starting their turn or entering for the first time in a turn take damage.

 

[dave2008]

Why no reactions? And since you are taking ongoing damage, you already have to make a concentration check, why disadvantage?

I like elder dragons causing ongoing fire damage,but I don't see the need for the two additional penalties you apply.

I am specifically trying to emulate some of the elements of dragon fire visualized in the last GoT episode (here is the scene if your interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yehoQilXYrM ). Such As:

1) Continued aggressive burning: ongoing fire damage
2) Searing pain and disorientation: no reactions and disadvantage on attacks and concentration checks.

In the scene the victims couldn't do anything but wildly attempt to put out the flames engulfing their bodies. I didn't want to take away all actions (PCs are heroes after all), but on second thought I should probably remove bonus actions as well. Maybe I should review the conditions again and see if there is a way to simplify this part. I also thought about imposing a limited blindness, but with disadvantage on attacks instead.

 

[dave2008]

Perhaps instead of ongoing fire damage, which you could say is just sort of lumped in with the initial damage fictionally speaking, you have the breath weapon create a zone where creatures starting their turn or entering for the first time in a turn take damage.

That is a good suggestion, probably easier to keep track of than ongoing damage. Of course, ideally it would do both! Though I would stipulate the zone and ongoing fire damage don't stack.

 

[iserith]

That is a good suggestion, probably easier to keep track of than ongoing damage. Of course, ideally it would do both! Though I would stipulate the zone and ongoing fire damage don't stack.

So if you do zones that do damage at start of creature's turn, they'll get hit with breath weapon damage then follow up damage if they are in the zone when their turns come up. You get the effect of "ongoing damage" without the upkeep, plus it becomes a hazard that is either a help or a hindrance to the monsters or characters. This increases the tactical nature of the combat if you're into that sort of thing.

When I watched the episode, the thing that caught my eye was not so much the random people on fire, but the fires raging on the battlefield plus the smoke that obscured vision.

 

[dave2008]

So if you do zones that do damage at start of creature's turn, they'll get hit with breath weapon damage then follow up damage if they are in the zone when their turns come up. You get the effect of "ongoing damage" without the upkeep, plus it becomes a hazard that is either a help or a hindrance to the monsters or characters. This increases the tactical nature of the combat if you're into that sort of thing.

When I watched the episode, the thing that caught my eye was not so much the random people on fire, but the fires raging on the battlefield plus the smoke that obscured vision.

I agree with everything you say. I could definitely add a fiery smoke zone effect as well, and it produces an effect very similar to ongoing damage. However, ideally I also want people who are engulfed in flames and that stumble out of the zone to continue suffering the effects until they or someone else does something to remove the effects. It may be generally to complex for a 5e game, but I like it as a variant rule that I would use.

 

[iserith]

I agree with everything you say. I could definitely add a fiery smoke zone effect as well, and it produces an effect very similar to ongoing damage. However, ideally I also want people who are engulfed in flames and that stumble out of the zone to continue suffering the effects until they or someone else does something to remove the effects. It may be generally to complex for a 5e game, but I like it as a variant rule that I would use.

Another consideration might be: How likely do you think it is that your players will trade an Attack or Spell action to end the ongoing damage?

I know that when granting a save with a standard action Heal check in D&D 4e was only used in truly desperate situations. And I know that my players at that time were never happy trading an attack to do it. Your players may be different, of course.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

I like the zone idea, as it is also useful for other dragon breath weapons.

For ongoing effects, maybe a condition is better than damage: you take fire damage from the attack, and then (ongoing) you are blinded (or to get all GoT, frightened [like the Hound is of fire]) until you "stop, drop, and roll" (and wipe any ash out of your eyes) [1 action], someone uses the help action to assist you, you use second wind, or you are magically healed. It is worthwhile to take an action to remove the effect (especially since it doesn't necessarily involve magic), but a PC isn't going to die from ongoing damage, and getting blasted twice doesn't make you twice as blinded or frightened.

 

[CapnZapp]

After watching the latest GoT episode it got me thinking about dragon fire. One thing I really liked was the continuing chaos and damage caused by the dragon fire after the initial attack. In 4e I got tired of so many monsters inflicting ongoing damage, so I started dropping it from my monsters designs. However, after seeing the episode I really want to bring it back with a vengeance (for ancient dragons at least). What do you think?

How about:
Fire Breath (Recharge 5-6). The dragon exhales fire in a 90-foot cone. Each creature in the area must make a DC 24 Dexterity saving throw, taking 91 (26d6) fire damage and is ignited on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. A creature or object ignited by dragon fire cannot take reactions, has disadvantage on its attacks and concentration checks, and takes 21 (6d6) fire damage at the start of each of its turns until it is extinguished. An ignited creature or object can be extinguished with the equivalent of 5 gallons of water or by taking an action and a successful DC 15 Dexterity saving throw to extinguish the flames.

This, I think, begins to model the effects produced by Drogon in "The Spoils of War." Any suggestions.

Heh. Fear Drogon, the Napalm Dragon

My own biggest beef with (large) dragon breath is the pitiful area.

I usually allow the dragon to breathe throughout a move, meaning you "paint" the cone or line for each square you enter as you fly by. Nothing ridiculous like shooting off in completely separate directions "to the right, to the left, to the right again". Mostly an unchanging angle of attack, but at least more than a pitiful 30 ft cone.

This doesn't affect adventurers (much), since once all of them are inside, it doesn't matter anymore.

But as verisimilitude, when a dragon attacks a village (or an army).