dread necromancer

[green slime]

Easy.... transformation into a Demi Lich. Bwahahahahaaa!

Its gotta have something else as well.

Demi-Liches are not just dread necromancers.

 

[frankthedm]

I think the DN is the only ECL 20 lich that can cast five or six ninth-level spells in a day, yeah? Maybe you can break the Ur-Priest to do that, but whatever, the point is that the DN is cool for this reason.

But how many different 9th level spells can the DN cast?

Do most of them allow fort saves?

Also, how many spells of his won't crash and burn on a death ward?

If he has to make every other spell a Greater Dispel to take down death ward, I am not sure how glamourous those slots are.

 

[lukelightning]

Its gotta have something else as well.

What, in addition to an insight bonus to AC and to hit equal to your HD, good spell-like abilities, soul trapping, stat and skill bonuses, and bonus epic feats?

 

[bestone]

This one is a bit strong, and sudden, for me, as well as something you didn't cover, which is the +2 to Int, Wis, and Cha. Also, my problem with the paralyzing touch is that there have been other touch attacks developed all along the DN's career. Why can't paralyzing touch show up sooner?yeah, but I think the DN is the only ECL 20 lich that can cast five or six ninth-level spells in a day, yeah? Maybe you can break the Ur-Priest to do that, but whatever, the point is that the DN is cool for this reason.

What would you recommend for epic progression?

Ok, on the +2 int wis and charisma.

They wont age anymore. Usually mages in our group try to beg the dm to start off old for the stat bonuses. You get more int wis and charisma as you age, but as a lich you'll never age anymore. I think this is to represent what they would accumulate over time from aging.

If you actually reach venerable you'd end up getting +3 to int wis charisma.


And sure you can cast 5-6 9th level spells at 20, so can a sorcerer. But your spells at level 20 will be a lot more limited than his. And thats saying something.

I dont think there really is anything to suggest for epic progression, you become a lich, the whole class goal is fulfilled. You've been becomming one over 20 levels, your now one. I think you'll just have to multiclass, which kinda sucks.

Like I said, i've read the dread necro, and i play a dread necro at high levels.

And I think i'd rather make a cleric or wizard, and turn myself into a lich.

*btw, i'd think you would get the +3 level adjustment, as part of the package, its part of the template after all, if you apply the template, you'd probably apply this, thus that should balance it some, no?*

 

[Mouseferatu]

There's a reason, as I read it, why the entry says specifically what traits the DN gains upon transformation into a lich.

She already has the others.

Look at the powers she gains over her levels. The charnel touch, the natural armor bonus, the DR... By the time the DN "becomes" a lich, she's basically already one, except for not being undead.

 

[bestone]

bestone, how do you like the DN? Is it fun to play? Over/underpowered? What did you take for your advanced learning? Which feats? Martial weapon? How does the DN fit in with the party, and what do the other players think about it?

I dont think its overpowered. For the first half dozen levels I felt very lacking. We didnt run into undead I could rebuke, and i couldnt animate anythign till 8th level (ouch!). I was considering changing for a while actually it was pretty bad. But then at 6 I came into some power, and at 8th I was just loving it!.

Once you get your familiar your styling. Many of the familiars you can choose have invisibility and paralyzing effects. Sending your familiar out to paralyze a group of foes is sweet. I chose the very cliche scythe, but it was based on this. Now when my familiar paralyzes things i walk up and coup de gras them with a scythe, very deathy!.

In the first few levels I used charnel touch, and found it usefull, best combination is to take Tomb Tainted Soul from the libris mortis. It makes you undead for how you heal (positive/negative switch). So when your charnel touch yourself, you actually heal 1hp. Meaning after any battle you take 2mins and can heal yourself to full! While this may seem overpowered, its not that bad. Remember your a caster, and being in melee is a bad place. After about level 4 melee became useless, and summoning undead from afar was my new tactic *owlbear skele's rock!!!!*. Note about overpowerdness, if ever your fighting a shadow creature or something immune to negative energy, your spells are mostly useless.

For my advanced learning, at level 4 I chose kelgars grave mist. Its from the phb2. It was an aoo damage spell, and lacking damage i felt this was a great choice.

At 8th i probably could have chosen something better, but there was a neat spell in the spell compendium i just wanted to take Death armor! its like a mini sort of fire shield. Anyone that attacks you takes 1d4/2 levels i think? im not sure. But its negative energy and fun.

At 12th I took ghoul gauntlet, Again less a choice of power, more a choice of fun. You kill people with it and make ghouls!

At 16 - Awaken undead (i got this from another source however)

As for feats? Tomb tainted soul is your bread and butter. Some people read it that your negative energy burst affects you *as it doesnt say it discludes you at all*. So if you read it that way ...wow. And if you dont your charnel touch is still amazing.

Arcane disciple is a great feat if your dm lets you take it, you can take a domain and add those spells to your spells you can cast. My dm let me take it and i took the deathbound domain.

I took craft wand, Very useless with me, but the casters all had a pack to take a craft skill. So they may use thier spells to create wands through me. I make summon undead wands and give them to the bard.

Theres lots of feats in the libris mortis for you, want your undead to explode in negative energy? destruction retribution is for you (and with tomb tainted soul heals you)

Remember too, you can control a massive amount of undead. My cha bonus is 6, at level 10 i was able to control 6+4xmy level, thats right, 100hd of undead!. I never had anywhere near this many, most i had was 15-20hd worth of undead. Its too expensive for upkeep and the other players will kill you if you have 100 skele's following you around, and you waste thier time by using every last one.

As to how it worked with the party?

at the low levels i didnt know my place, i tried entering combat but the warriros didnt understand a mage entering combat, thought i was dumb, and kept trying to cover me. I had good melee ability but nto much other punch.

After 6th level, they appreciated me more, we ran into some demons with long paralyzing tongues, entire party was paralyzed except for me (yay to good saves). I was burning through charges of my level 2 summon undead (1 charge a round!). Covered the party in undead to protect them. Saved the day (and the party from a tpk). After that the bard and wizard carried around summon undead wands with them.

Once i hit 8, we had tireless mounts, yay @ undead mounts. We even had an ankheg skeleton. Since its got an exoskeleton it was hollow inside. With a winter blanket and some skill checks we turned him into a treasure carrying mount.

Anyways all in all, it was slow to get there, but now its a blast.

 

[green slime]

What, in addition to an insight bonus to AC and to hit equal to your HD, good spell-like abilities, soul trapping, stat and skill bonuses, and bonus epic feats?

Yes... Something called flavour.

 

[Elemental]

A couple of observations:

I dont think its overpowered. For the first half dozen levels I felt very lacking. We didnt run into undead I could rebuke, and i couldnt animate anythign till 8th level (ouch!). I was considering changing for a while actually it was pretty bad. But then at 6 I came into some power, and at 8th I was just loving it!.

Rebuking undead gives you access to divine feats--with the high Charisma of a Dread Necromancer, Divine Spell Power is usually a good, solid choice.

Remember your a caster, and being in melee is a bad place. After about level 4 melee became useless, and summoning undead from afar was my new tactic *owlbear skele's rock!!!!*. Note about overpowerdness, if ever your fighting a shadow creature or something immune to negative energy, your spells are mostly useless.

Spectral Hand is the best friend of a Dread Necromancer--it lets those deadly touch spells be delivered from long range.

Also, there are a few good spells for creatures immune to necromancy. Black Tentacles and Acid Fog, for example.

 

[seans23]

But how many different 9th level spells can the DN cast?

5 + 1 from advanced learning

Do most of them allow fort saves?

Energy Drain : not for 24 hours
Imprison Soul: will save
Harm, Mass: will (for half)
Plague of Undead: no save
Wail of the banshee: fort negates

so... 1-2 depending on how you look at it.

Also, how many spells of his won't crash and burn on a death ward?

Just Energy Drain and Wail of the Banshee would be thwarted.

If he has to make every other spell a Greater Dispel to take down death ward, I am not sure how glamourous those slots are.

Mass Harm. Repeat.

 

[Rystil Arden]

5 + 1 from advanced learning


Energy Drain : not for 24 hours
Imprison Soul: will save
Harm, Mass: will (for half)
Plague of Undead: no save
Wail of the banshee: fort negates

so... 1-2 depending on how you look at it.


Just Energy Drain and Wail of the Banshee would be thwarted.


Mass Harm. Repeat.

Methinks you should read Mass Harm a bit more carefully before you make that claim