D&D 5E Druid WILD SHAPE !

[Flamestrike]

Let's say the Druid 2 goes for the big guns and turns into a Brown Bear (AC 11, 34 hp). A Minotaur Skeleton (a CR 2 monster) needs 5+ to hit, and deals an average of 17 hp with its greataxe (max 28 hp). It is pretty much guaranteed that the Druid will turn back to humanoid form by the end of round 2 (and would be dead by round 3).

The Druid (with a 14 Con) also has 18 HP underneath the Bear chassis. Assuming the Minotaur hits the Druid (75 percent chance each round) dealing average damage each hit, he needs 3 rounds to drop the druid down to 1 Hit point - at which time the druid uses a bonus action to adopt bear form again gaining an additional 34 hit points (allowing him to soak 2 more attacks).

Without spell casting to heal, the Druid doesn't get dropped till the 6th hit (on average). He survives 8 rounds (factoring in his AC, on average 2 attacks out of 8 will miss). At third level, with Barkskin he survives 12 rounds.

The Chainmail wearing GWF 2 handed Fighter with similar Stats gets hit on a 10+ and has 20HP (plus 7-8 from second wind) goes down after 2 hits (in four rounds on average factoring in his AC of 16 so 50 percent of attacks miss).

The Druid survives for four rounds more than the Fighter. At third level, the Druid survives eight rounds longer.

Damage potential over that same period also heavily favors the Druid. He deals (on average) 8 more points of damage each round he is up over the fighter (barring one round of Action surge).

Every short rest the Fighter can heal (assuming he has HD), and regains one Action surge, and regains one (1d10 plus level in HP) second wind. The Druid also heals (with HD)... and regains 68 hit points thanks to recharging 2 uses of Wild shape. Based off standard encounter pacing of 2-3 short rests per long rest, the Druid (at 2nd level) has a whopping 204 extra Hit points per long rest over what the Fighter can muster.

Moon Druids simply outclass the Fighter at Fighting. They deal more damage, and have a vastly larger pool of HP throughout the day (between long rests). He is also a full caster, and can use Wild shape for scouting and other utility, things that a Fighter simply cannot hope to match.

By the time the Fighter catches up at 6th level (via extra attack, battlemaster maneuvers, access to Full Plate armor and 1 extra feat) the druid is changing into Polar bear form (84 HP per short rest), and gains utility forms like fly (giant vulture or eagle) swim and climb (plus don't forget full spell casting underneath all that combat ability and general utility).

At 10th level the Druid gains an effective 252 extra HP every short rest thanks to Earth Elemental form (and its resistance to non magic weapon attacks). That's a whopping extra 756 HP every 'standard' adventuring day. His damage is still about on par with the Fighter (until the Fighter gets Second attack(2) at 11th level. Remember: the Druid is also now casting 6th level spells underneath all that at this point.

At 'Onion druid' stage, the Druid effectively has a 252 HP buffer that resets every. single. round. And he can now cast his 9th level and lower spells in his elemental form. At this stage it is broken beyond all saving (although few games will get to 20th level).

My point is: you *can* build a frontline tank Druid who will be a frightening biting machine. But that will require an expenditure of resources that could be of use elsewhere.

The Druid above was built with no resource expenditure (via feats, physical ability score improvements to remain combat viable - which he doesnt need - or equipment - magical or mundane - or gold).

 

[Flamestrike]

Anything they'll be rolling for, combat or otherwise. The idea being that party members might possibly be thrown off for a very short duration by an unannounced shape changing.

I dont agree with this at all.

Your way of reigning in the Druids (OP but signature and defining) class feature... is to punish the other PC's when he uses it?

Surely (from a balance, enjoyment and mechanical perspective) wouldn't it be better to grant disadvantage to the Druid? ('In game' rationale: 'you're momentarily disorientated from the sudden shift into animal form, and it takes a few rounds to adjust to the new forms physique and senses. 'Out of game' rationale: balancing the Moon Druid's obscene wild shape ability)

 

[Wepwawet]

Anything they'll be rolling for, combat or otherwise. The idea being that party members might possibly be thrown off for a very short duration by an unannounced shape changing.

That's just ridiculous.

Fireballs, lycanthropes, mind flayers and eldritch sorcery all around, and no one bats an eye. One dude turns into an animal and suddenly they're all "OMGWhat??? I can't take it!!!"

 

[Wepwawet]

I told my Moon Druid upfront that several things will happen when he Wild Shapes:
1.) If he doesn't disrobe first, shaping into a different form can and will tear clothes/ruin equipment, ala the old Hulk TV show.
2.) If he suddenly shapes without telling his party, they need to roll perception. Failed gives them disadvantage for 1d6 rounds.
3.) If he shapes in front of non party members, they need to roll perception. Failed will cause circumstantial consequences.
4.) If he morphs back to normal form, he'll be naked. If it's during combat, he's likely going to get hit and hit a lot until he gets his armor back on.

My druid is an experienced player, so he understood the message I was sending. He really like to use it for non combat situations. He'll turn into a rat or something and scout ahead.

A much better way of sending that message, and in my opinion much more sensible, is simply to make Wild Shape take 3 rounds. Or a whole minute even.

But of course, it's your game, and if your player are ok with it, have fun!

 

[PnPgamer]

Cheese it up with levels of barbarian, you start to see raging bears then.

 

[Pickles JG]

Raging bears doing kung fu

 

[Klaus]

The Druid (with a 14 Con) also has 18 HP underneath the Bear chassis. Assuming the Minotaur hits the Druid (75 percent chance each round) dealing average damage each hit, he needs 3 rounds to drop the druid down to 1 Hit point - at which time the druid uses a bonus action to adopt bear form again gaining an additional 34 hit points (allowing him to soak 2 more attacks).
(...)

The Druid above was built with no resource expenditure (via feats, physical ability score improvements to remain combat viable - which he doesnt need - or equipment - magical or mundane - or gold).

Spending two uses of Wild Shape in a fight against a single CR-appropriate creature *is* a resource expenditutre. The equivalent would be the Fighter spending all of his Superiority Dice and his Action Surge in a single fight.

At 6th level the druid can turn into an AC 12, 42 hp, +7/+7 (9/12), Str 20 polar bear. At the same level, the Fighter is AC 20, 47 hp, +8/+8 (9/9), Str 20. A CR 5 Hill Giant hits the druid with a 4+, dealing an average of 36 hp per round (32, factoring in the misses). The same Hill Giant needs a 12+ to his the fighter, dealing an adjusted 16 hp per round. That means the Fighter's hp are effectively doubled.

At 18th level, the druid can turn into an AC 13, 95 hp, +9 (24), Str 22 triceratops. At the same level, the Fighter (let's keep him without outside magic) is AC 20, 185 hp, +11/+11/+11 (9/9/9), Str 20/Con 20. A CR 15 Iron Golem needs 2+ to hit the druid, dealing an adjusted 40 hp per round. It needs a 7+ to hit the fighter, dealing an adjusted 28 hp per round.

 

[Pickles JG]

They are very strong but probably only broken at 2 level or one session per guidelines. Even so our moon druid turned into a bear ar level 2 then was dropped, to 11 over bear hp by a swarm of bullywugs who appreciated the 11 AC.

The whole shape change thing feels free cf what a land druid gets and they are pretty much wizards so moon Druids feel like Wizards with lots of free hp.

 

[Flamestrike]

Spending two uses of Wild Shape in a fight against a single CR-appropriate creature *is* a resource expenditutre. The equivalent would be the Fighter spending all of his Superiority Dice and his Action Surge in a single fight.

DnD isnt a PvP game, but I can highlight the melee combat potency of the Druid best in the following example:

Build a 3rd level Fighter with any PHB weapons you want and any armor up to Splint mail (appropriate for that level). Use point buy for stats. Fully healed and no resources expended. Choose any archetype, race and feat you want.

He's up against a (variant) Human Moon Druid 3. Wisdom, Dex and Con all 16 (Str, Cha, Int all 8). Resilient (Constitution) feat. Barksin already cast (lasts an hour), but I wont use any other spells during the combat to make it 'fair' and because of the long rest recovery (despite having 4 1sts and another 2nd level spell plus cantrips). Is also is already in Bear form (it lasts an hour, and is only a bonus action to assume). Wearing leather armor with a scimitar and shield, sling and ammo, and dagger 'underneath'.

30' x 30' room. 10' ceilings. 20 feet apart, backs to walls. Thunderdome style. I have my money on the Druid.

This is only to highlight that the Druid is fighting better than the Fighter.

At 6th level the druid can turn into an AC 12, 42 hp, +7/+7 (9/12), Str 20 polar bear. At the same level, the Fighter is AC 20, 47 hp, +8/+8 (9/9), Str 20. A CR 5 Hill Giant hits the druid with a 4+, dealing an average of 36 hp per round (32, factoring in the misses). The same Hill Giant needs a 12+ to his the fighter, dealing an adjusted 16 hp per round. That means the Fighter's hp are effectively doubled.

Bark skin reduces the damage to 24 per round on average. DC 9 Con saves to maintain concentration are a breeze thanks to the bears Con of 16 and +3 proficiency bonus (+6). Only fail on a 1 or 2. Have more than enough 2nd and 3rd level slots to recast if it does go down, and can spam slots to regenerate in combat.

At this level my Druid (above) has selected Savage attacker for his feat, and now in Polar bear form has 51 HP base Druid, Con 16) plus (2 x 42 HP) per short rest. Requires 135 Hit points to drop (per short rest and not including healing). The Hill giant will take 6 rounds to kill him (not factoring in blowing spell slots as bonus actions to regenerate). The Druid hits at +8 twice per round for 23 damage per round; adjusted to 18 damage per turn (Hill Giants AC = 13). The Giant also dies on round 6. About even.

The Strength 20 Fighter has no feats (barring variant human). His AC is 20 so he has Full plate and Shield - likely using duelling style. We can give him a Con of 16, and the Shield master feat just for added and giggles. Adds up to an impressive 58HP plus 11.5 from Second wind = 70HP (round up). Hits at +8 2/round doing 1d8+7 (23 damage per round same as the druid). Also has 4d8 superiority die (will all be added to damage on first 4 hits for plus 18 damage) and action surge (granting an extra 23 damage round 1).

First round fighter actions surges and blows all superiority dice on damage for (23+18+23) 54 damage, adjusted for AC to 43 damage. Deals 18 damage per turn thereafter. Takes him 5 rounds to kill the Giant.

Unfortunately the Giant deals 16 damage per round (adjusted for AC) to the Fighter. Fighter also drops after 5 rounds.

The two classes are equal in combat to one another. The Fighter has finally 'caught up' and can now 'Fight' as well as the Druid after lagging behind him for 4 levels. When you factor in the Druids ability to regenerate during combat thanks to his spell slot burning as bonus actions, he is actually in front of the Fighter still even at this level.

Now remember under this equal combat chassis, this Druid is also a full casting class (has 3/4/3/3 spells at present), and has the added utility of widlshaping into a utility form should he choose to as well (granting utility the Fighter cannot hope to have).

Also remember the Fighter better enjoy his newfound ability to match the Druid at Fighting, because the Druid at 10th level leapfrogs the Fighters combat ability once more when he gets his Elemental forms up and running.

The Fighter only really pulls it back to combat parity once he gets his Extra action surge (at 17th level). By then, whenthe Fighter is finally matching the druid in Combat, the Druid is casting 9th level spells.

At 18th level, the druid can turn into an AC 13, 95 hp, +9 (24), Str 22 triceratops. At the same level, the Fighter (let's keep him without outside magic) is AC 20, 185 hp, +11/+11/+11 (9/9/9), Str 20/Con 20. A CR 15 Iron Golem needs 2+ to hit the druid, dealing an adjusted 40 hp per round. It needs a 7+ to hit the fighter, dealing an adjusted 28 hp per round.

Try an Earth elemental instead. I cant be stuffed doing the maths but its an extra 252 HP per Short rest for the Druid. Also note, at 18th level, the Druid can cast spells in this form. Including 9th level spells. Like Foresight (8 hours no concentration required).

In 2 levels time its an extra 252 hit points every single round (126 hit points per round from attacks against magic weapons) for the druid. Even Action Surging, and totally disregarding spells, the Fighter simply cant win a fight with this Druid (barring catching him asleep).

 

[Flamestrike]

Skills for above Druid are Athletics, Perception, Medicine, Nature, Religion. Hermit background. Herbalist and Disguise tools proff.