Dwarvin Polearm build--HELP PLEASE

[RulesJD]

You will have at most a str stat of 16 for most of your career, that's +3 to hit compared to +4 or 5. That's a huge difference. Later you combine this with -5 to hit from GWF, that's just wont work.

If you use variant human for the feat at first, then your stats will be less since only +1 at first for racial. If you take variant human heavy armor mastery you can get +2 in strength at first level, but you want barbarian so that's off the table. It also means 15 at point buy in str and con, so a 14 and a 13 wont happen with a 27 point buy. You can get a 13 and 12 with 2 8's. Your ac will now be lower and you can't multiclass into a cleric unless you bump the score, which burns a feat. You could go with 15, 14, 13, 13 to cover the multi-classing requirements early.

You will have the lowest AC of the people on the front line so will be getting hit so counting on bless past the first round is assuming you will pass multiple concentration checks. Plus Bless is an action, so you give up a round of attacks in most cases unless you get a "prep" round. A cleric giving up an attack for a bless spell is in most cases a no-brainer, a fighter type giving up multiple attacks isn't.

With those feats your base stats never move. They will always be behind and be a constant drag. Your AC wont move either with no CON or DEX bumps. Bless (which cant be counted on round after round if you cast it and fight) and reckless attack wont cover this. Constant advantage is a reach, and you give up advantage to get it with the barbarian features.

The more I see this the more I am convinced this is a book build and not a build that has ever been played.

1. Okay, smack down time.

2. This is the build I took through HotDQ and then through RoT, all the way up to beating her. All AL legal rules, played as written and open rolling. Currently sitting at level 17 AL legal.

3. 17 AC is plenty to avoid hits by minions. I don't care about dodging hits from the BBEG, because someone has to eat them and I'd much rather it be me with my ~200 health, that de facto doubles when I'm raging. Please, again, tell me of these high level encounters where you are fighting enemies that are doing only B/P/S? Not Cones of Cold going off every other turn, Fire Balls, Walls of Fire, etc? Or, as in HotDQ, dragon breath weapons?

4. I don't care about the AC being low. If for some reason I did, I'd just cast Shield of Faith. But at higher levels (real AL legal play not whatever prior editions homebrew you're talking about), having more health = more important than AC. Why? Because waaaay more attacks trigger off of saves or the BBEG has +12 to hit so who cares? Minion to grant Help function for advantage and BBEG is good to go.

5. No, I lock down the BBEG away from in. You don't HAVE to use your PAM on the first enemy that enters your range. If you are, you're an idiot. That combo of feats, however, does guarantee that me and my huge pool of HP will be the center focus, which is exactly what I want.

6. I am 100% convinced you only play some homebrew with a cake walk DM if you think HAM is remotely worth it as a feat at any level past 5.

 

[Kithas]

1. Okay, smack down time.

2. This is the build I took through HotDQ and then through RoT, all the way up to beating her. All AL legal rules, played as written and open rolling. Currently sitting at level 17 AL legal.

3. 17 AC is plenty to avoid hits by minions. I don't care about dodging hits from the BBEG, because someone has to eat them and I'd much rather it be me with my ~200 health, that de facto doubles when I'm raging. Please, again, tell me of these high level encounters where you are fighting enemies that are doing only B/P/S? Not Cones of Cold going off every other turn, Fire Balls, Walls of Fire, etc? Or, as in HotDQ, dragon breath weapons?

4. I don't care about the AC being low. If for some reason I did, I'd just cast Shield of Faith. But at higher levels (real AL legal play not whatever prior editions homebrew you're talking about), having more health = more important than AC. Why? Because waaaay more attacks trigger off of saves or the BBEG has +12 to hit so who cares? Minion to grant Help function for advantage and BBEG is good to go.

5. No, I lock down the BBEG away from in. You don't HAVE to use your PAM on the first enemy that enters your range. If you are, you're an idiot. That combo of feats, however, does guarantee that me and my huge pool of HP will be the center focus, which is exactly what I want.

6. I am 100% convinced you only play some homebrew with a cake walk DM if you think HAM is remotely worth it as a feat at any level past 5.

2. Most of wizard's premade adventures are cake-walk style, i've never had an issue even with bad rolls/builds basically anyone can rock a prefab adventure. I've only died in a prefab once and that was because my dm took a random encounter that we rolled for and decided to make it a double-deadly instead of a medium, as written we wouldve been fine.

3. Hits by minions are usually negligible yes. After the BBEG drops you in 3 turns he's gonna walk over and wreck the rest of your team. What's become the staple for my group has actually been our number+2 of cr15-18s. There's no way you are surviving with 3 of those coming at you.

4. Shield of faith is really a good spell to help, Blur would be but that's beside the point. A +12 to hit still has a lot of trouble hitting my 22 ac. The difference between an 80% chance(your 17) and a 55% chance to get hit is absolutely massive. High hp definitely is important too, but your ac is the first line of defense.

5. Like 90% of the BBEG's after level 11 have reach or range, so you CANT lock them out. They just hit you from your range or greater while locking you in place with minions. All the ancient dragons have 15' of reach, that's more than you. You can't stop them in their tracks with that combo because they don't even need to get to you.

6. Considering his dm literally dropped a dragon on him I don't think he is playing a cakewalk homebrew. In my experience most homebrews are more dangerous than the official stuff. Considering my dm gives us 3-5 deadly to double deadly encounters and adventuring day I don't think I'm playing a 'cakewalk homebrew' either.

Your AL sounds pretty cakewalky to me honestly if you can reliably lock down the big boss with a poke...

 

[HalfAlbinoMidget]

1. You are not the best candidate for the tank.
----Not having a shield and not being able to use Opp attacks within 5' ...

Do you have a source for not being able to OA within 5' with a reach weapon? I cannot find anything stating an attack with a reach weapon prevents you from AOing a target close to you.

I have a new campaign (Sat is second session) and we have a human fighter with Polearm Mastery and a halberd. Trying to get as much of the special circumstances figured out before they occur in gameplay where a haphazard call or stopping combat to rule lawyer stuff.

Thanks!

 

[Kithas]

Do you have a source for not being able to OA within 5' with a reach weapon? I cannot find anything stating an attack with a reach weapon prevents you from AOing a target close to you.

I have a new campaign (Sat is second session) and we have a human fighter with Polearm Mastery and a halberd. Trying to get as much of the special circumstances figured out before they occur in gameplay where a haphazard call or stopping combat to rule lawyer stuff.

Thanks!

You get an opportunity attack when a target leaves your reach, with a polearm your reach is 10'. This means that you only get opp attacks when creatures go from 10' to 15' away from you.

 

[Kithas]

accidental double post is accidental

 

[HalfAlbinoMidget]

I understand that but your original reference was regarding being unable to AO creatures 5 feet from you while using a reach weapon (implied but we are talking about Polearm Mastery feat).

 

[Kithas]

I understand that but your original reference was regarding being unable to AO creatures 5 feet from you while using a reach weapon (implied but we are talking about Polearm Mastery feat).

I was talking in general about the build. If a creature moves from 5' to 10' from you you don't get an opp attack, whereas any non-reach weapon would. This means that your allies actually want to be a good ways away from you and not within that 10' bubble of free enemy movement.

 

[smbakeresq]

About 200 health? At level 17 with tough and 16 con (with your dwarf racial stats) that's 85 HP for bonuses. That means you average 6.76 per hit die roll, on a d10 with a few d12 and d8 mixed in. With a human and less than 16 con that's 68 HP with bonuses, or 7.76 per hit die. Ok, seems fair and possible I guess. Totally legal since you rolled "openly."

You cant cast or concentrate on shield of faith while in rage. So what were you in rage or not, I cant tell, the story keeps changing.

Your not locking out anybody, especially not dragons, let along an ancient one. And if you let the minions get past you then they get next to you, rage all your want they will wear you down. Or maybe they just grapple you, or maybe run past you into your team.

We run the published adventures, just never as easy as yours is evidently. But then, in 40 years of playing I have never averaged 7.76 per d10 either for 17 HP rolls.

Against Tiamat, if she uses just her multiattack and bite legendary action and you are raging and she never crits you will take 61 dmg per turn with resistance up. If you are not raging it will average 122 per turn. Of course if she uses the other legendary actions on someone elses turn and you get caught in the effect you take more damage, the 2 weakest head will bring it up to 135, or 270 if not raging. You wont make all your saves, but might make some, so lets get that down to 100. You last 2-4 turns. You might as well reckless attack since she will only miss on a 1 anyway, your ac is too low. Of course you have the problem of the dc26 frightful effect also, if don't make it then you might not hit with your opp att to "lock here down." But how can you lock down a creature with 5 different breathe weapons range and reach of 15, 20 and 25'? Stop her 15" away? If the DM focuses you, you are gone. As a DM I would since you would have the audacity to stand in front of me, or maybe its because Tiamat has 26 int and wis and thus should be played as smartly as possible, no holds barred. I would actually add in 5 lair actions, one for each head. My DM would.

Of course a DM just could never let her land, and just blast away from 85' in the air. You could fly up to her of course.

Oh and by the way, I am not a rules lawyer, I am real lawyer. I can spot the logical inconsistencies right away, along with the shifting stories. Please stop.

The end of this discussion.

 

[RulesJD]

3. Hits by minions are usually negligible yes. After the BBEG drops you in 3 turns he's gonna walk over and wreck the rest of your team. What's become the staple for my group has actually been our number+2 of cr15-18s. There's no way you are surviving with 3 of those coming at you.

4. Shield of faith is really a good spell to help, Blur would be but that's beside the point. A +12 to hit still has a lot of trouble hitting my 22 ac. The difference between an 80% chance(your 17) and a 55% chance to get hit is absolutely massive. High hp definitely is important too, but your ac is the first line of defense.

5. Like 90% of the BBEG's after level 11 have reach or range, so you CANT lock them out. They just hit you from your range or greater while locking you in place with minions. All the ancient dragons have 15' of reach, that's more than you. You can't stop them in their tracks with that combo because they don't even need to get to you.



Your AL sounds pretty cakewalky to me honestly if you can reliably lock down the big boss with a poke...

1. Please, reveal to me the BBEG that drops a Raging 212hp (accounting for Second Wind, if used after rage, total HP becomes de facto 457ish) Barbarian/Fighter/Cleric? I'll save you the math and tell you that your BBEG has to do ~153 damage per round, albeit possibly less if he can hit before Rage goes up in the first round. (Hint: I've already checked the MM, there aren't any BBEGs that can do even remotely that, including ancient dragons,etc.).

That's the problem in 5e. +to hit scales faster than AC does without some serious magic items. AC tanking works great in low and medium tier. You can even get away with it in low T3. Upper T3 and T4 it becomes largely pointless. Why? Because your next point clearly shows you aren't operating with a hard DM.

2. Your DM should be using his minions to knock you prone (Shove action) or providing the Help action for his big hits. Then your 55% to hit becomes right up there with mine. Sure I'm a guaranteed hit, but I couldn't care less due to the aforementioned 457ish HPs to soak up that damage. Meanwhile you'll be getting hit just as often with significantly less HP pool to absorb it.

3. First, you need to review the MM regarding how many high level BBEGs have reach. Second, that's what the Trip/Pushing attack are for (if Large size or smaller). Hit on the opening = stuck either 25ft away or stuck prone attacking at disadvantage. Doesn't work on Huge size or larger BBEG, but damn sure works for a lot of them (as well as all the fights leading up to the BBEG, negating all sorts of damage and preventing the need to expend resources before the BBEG fight)

4. You've gone just 100% off topic. My build is applicable to the OPs initial request of a Dwarven PAM user. Delay the feat progression by 1 (my lvl 17 guy is variant h) and my build applies. Your's isn't even remotely close.

 

[RulesJD]

About 200 health? At level 17 with tough and 16 con (with your dwarf racial stats) that's 85 HP for bonuses. That means you average 6.76 per hit die roll, on a d10 with a few d12 and d8 mixed in. With a human and less than 16 con that's 68 HP with bonuses, or 7.76 per hit die. Ok, seems fair and possible I guess. Totally legal since you rolled "openly."

You cant cast or concentrate on shield of faith while in rage. So what were you in rage or not, I cant tell, the story keeps changing.

Your not locking out anybody, especially not dragons, let along an ancient one. And if you let the minions get past you then they get next to you, rage all your want they will wear you down. Or maybe they just grapple you, or maybe run past you into your team.

We run the published adventures, just never as easy as yours is evidently. But then, in 40 years of playing I have never averaged 7.76 per d10 either for 17 HP rolls.

Against Tiamat, if she uses just her multiattack and bite legendary action and you are raging and she never crits you will take 61 dmg per turn with resistance up. If you are not raging it will average 122 per turn. Of course if she uses the other legendary actions on someone elses turn and you get caught in the effect you take more damage, the 2 weakest head will bring it up to 135, or 270 if not raging. You wont make all your saves, but might make some, so lets get that down to 100. You last 2-4 turns. You might as well reckless attack since she will only miss on a 1 anyway, your ac is too low. Of course you have the problem of the dc26 frightful effect also, if don't make it then you might not hit with your opp att to "lock here down." But how can you lock down a creature with 5 different breathe weapons range and reach of 15, 20 and 25'? Stop her 15" away? If the DM focuses you, you are gone. As a DM I would since you would have the audacity to stand in front of me, or maybe its because Tiamat has 26 int and wis and thus should be played as smartly as possible, no holds barred. I would actually add in 5 lair actions, one for each head. My DM would.

Of course a DM just could never let her land, and just blast away from 85' in the air. You could fly up to her of course.

Oh and by the way, I am not a rules lawyer, I am real lawyer. I can spot the logical inconsistencies right away, along with the shifting stories. Please stop.

The end of this discussion.

1. You clearly don't play Adventurer's League, which is understandable. It's not for everyone. But if you did you'd know that you take average health at each level (max at first). As my last ASI I took +2 Con (after having Toughness already). So yes, that health is literally feasible because it's the only HP I can have. Good job on checking the math but horrible job at reading comprehension (I'm so sorry for how badly you must have done on your LSAT) where I said at higher levels you can take that 12th level of fighter if you'r really looking for an ASI.

2. Seriously man, did you get like a 160 LSAT or something (I'm sorry but it's ridiculously stupid that you think you're the only lawyer here. I mean, did you even look at my name?)??? Without being troubled to go quote myself, I stated that I either Bless or Rage in a fight, depending on the needs of my party/the enemy we're facing. A bunch of Storm Giants? Rage because they hit hard but don't force a lot of saves. Fighting a bunch of Archmages? Bless for the +to saves. Lower levels I used Divine favor for added damage, or higher levels if I need radiant damage. Shield of Faith? Never used, because as shown above, AC tanking in upper T3/T4 is pointless outside lots of +AC magic items pushing you up above 25 AC (and getting access to the Shield spell).

3. And finally we come to your claim that because you are a juris doctorate, you can end discussions. First, seriously? I mean, really? You think that's something anyone is going to do anything other than laugh at? I feel sorry for your clients, I really do. You can't even maintain enough logical reasoning and reading comp to remember the distinctions made between Raging or Casting as stated earlier.

Secondly, being a lawyer means jack squat about being a good optimizer. This is especially true given how stupidly easy it is to get into any sort of law school and then take one of the joke UBE states (sadly NY is becoming one of those). Please take this as a true piece of a advice, never throw down that you're a lawyer when (a) you're wrong; and (b) you want the people you're saying it to have any remote amount of respect for you.

*edit*

Forgot your "description" of the Tiamat. Again, you obviously didn't do the actual Rise of Tiamat adventure. Come on man, I'm not saying malpractice or anything but at least do some bare minimum due diligence here. Was about to write up a lengthy description of how the fight runs (fought her at level 14 not 17 so there's a bit of a difference in build, but whatever) but there's no point since you've never ran it.