E. Gary Gygax Sr. May Have Had Another, More Recent Will?

[Nikosandros]

Regarding the will -- I doubt it, unless there was a change in plan that was never notarized.

The IP question to me is complex.

• Do I think Gary would have expected what happened to happen? No, I doubt it.
• Do I think Gary would have been okay with his designated heirs doing whatever they wanted with it after his death. Yes. (With perhaps some reservations, he was hard to predict).
• Do I think Gary would have wanted fans to protest and even go the point of attacking any of his family members. Absolutely not.

See, in this particular case, I don't think Gary's priorities were his fans or getting his work out there. His priority was his family, and I don't think gaming was the most important thing in his life. Gary was smart, if he really wanted it to be, he could have gone the MAR Barker route and setup some sort of foundation, etc. He didn't.

The reason I posted what I did is I believe past merit and participation is important. Gail ran (actually owned) Gary's publishing company. She took a job in real estate to support Gary, she handled a lot of things for him, and they loved each other. Most fans had no issues with her in life while Gary was alive. For all that time spent, she earned the rights to control Gary's IP and inherit stuff, which the will supports.

And I have said this before, but Luke didn't participate in Gary's direct projects while he was alive. Lost City of Gaxmoor was with the trolls but not Trigee. Gary actually said he wanted Luke and Ernie to co-write CZ when Kuntz exited, but they refused, saying "there wasn't much financial recourse in it" (at least that was what Gary paraphrased). While that doesn't mean they couldn't have change of heart, and I think at least on some level he sincerely wants to promote his father's work, it does bug me on a level. My brother has businesses that I have nothing to do with -- if he died, I wouldn't expect to be given anything and I certainly wouldn't come in saying "he wanted to leave it to me".

That part wouldn't bug me as much if it wasn't for the whole Gygax Magazine issue. Gail got a lot of flack for this -- but now that the will has been shown (or at least described)...Gail was in the right there. I called that a decade ago, but now there is proof. And that thing was kind or weird to begin with -- the whole company was setup so Jayson Elliot was the priority owner, so he might of ended up with the name if he had a conflict with Luke and Ernie. I might have ended up more sympathetic to Luke if that had not happened.

I look at it this way -- say there was a restaurant or nightclub or some place owned by a swell guy everybody loved. The guy died. His wife decides to close the club (she still lives upstairs there) and won't sell it. A few of his kids protest and want to take over the club. But it's not really their call to make. People could protest, but it's really not up to them. I feel the same way about Gary's IP, even though I know people have a zeal for it.

Before I got to know Gary, I was a fan of his creations. However, over time, my perspective changed. I feel I should treat him like I'd treat any friend. I felt Gail has the right to try AND FAIL, as she earned it, even if I don't personally agree with it. I feel Gary would have wanted that, and even if I felt Gail was doing something completely contrary to Gary's wishes, I don't think Gary would want me to do things akin to stuff like, for example, Tenkar's dozens of blog posts dinging her over the years, several of them unjustified. If she doesn't want to take other people's advice, so be it. Some folks have accused me of sycophantry or something like that -- but to be honest, if I was that kind of guy, I'd be siding with Luke, as he is probably more successful in that gaming arena. And I really wanted Gary's works printed myself. But from a moral perspective I can't go with the vox populi on this.

That being said -- I was never privy to the exact terms of the Will before, and either because of the Will not being entered years ago, or because the court is looking at what I mentioned before and feels the items are being squandered, then that's probably logical consequences of her choices, and I can also accept that from a moral perspective.

I have to wonder if the Will was submitted and then everything else that happened happened as it did, would the same battle have happened.

Then again, I'm sad that in this timeline everybody was divided, and that Gary died too early.


I should point out that the Memorial Fund has been doing a lot of things. There has been the park bench, the library project, the museum project. Even today, a GenCon Founder Stone is being installed in Horticultural Hall. Members of Gary's family have been in attendance there. Gail and Alex have sat with Ernie and Heidi. So they are doing stuff. Memorials are complex projects that can take a lot of time. If Gail ends up losing control of the IP permanently at least she can focus on all of these efforts.

Whether or not you may or may not be the best person to handle the IP on a creative level doesn't mean you legally or morally should be in control of it.

Thanks for your reply, I appreciate it.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

Regarding the will -- I doubt it, unless there was a change in plan that was never notarized.

The IP question to me is complex.

• Do I think Gary would have expected what happened to happen? No, I doubt it.
• Do I think Gary would have been okay with his designated heirs doing whatever they wanted with it after his death. Yes. (With perhaps some reservations, he was hard to predict).
• Do I think Gary would have wanted fans to protest and even go the point of attacking any of his family members. Absolutely not.

See, in this particular case, I don't think Gary's priorities were his fans or getting his work out there. His priority was his family, and I don't think gaming was the most important thing in his life. Gary was smart, if he really wanted it to be, he could have gone the MAR Barker route and setup some sort of foundation, etc. He didn't.

The reason I posted what I did is I believe past merit and participation is important. Gail ran (actually owned) Gary's publishing company. She took a job in real estate to support Gary, she handled a lot of things for him, and they loved each other. Most fans had no issues with her in life while Gary was alive. For all that time spent, she earned the rights to control Gary's IP and inherit stuff, which the will supports.

And I have said this before, but Luke didn't participate in Gary's direct projects while he was alive. Lost City of Gaxmoor was with the trolls but not Trigee. Gary actually said he wanted Luke and Ernie to co-write CZ when Kuntz exited, but they refused, saying "there wasn't much financial recourse in it" (at least that was what Gary paraphrased). While that doesn't mean they couldn't have change of heart, and I think at least on some level he sincerely wants to promote his father's work, it does bug me on a level. My brother has businesses that I have nothing to do with -- if he died, I wouldn't expect to be given anything and I certainly wouldn't come in saying "he wanted to leave it to me".

That part wouldn't bug me as much if it wasn't for the whole Gygax Magazine issue. Gail got a lot of flack for this -- but now that the will has been shown (or at least described)...Gail was in the right there. I called that a decade ago, but now there is proof. And that thing was kind or weird to begin with -- the whole company was setup so Jayson Elliot was the priority owner, so he might of ended up with the name if he had a conflict with Luke and Ernie. I might have ended up more sympathetic to Luke if that had not happened.

I look at it this way -- say there was a restaurant or nightclub or some place owned by a swell guy everybody loved. The guy died. His wife decides to close the club (she still lives upstairs there) and won't sell it. A few of his kids protest and want to take over the club. But it's not really their call to make. People could protest, but it's really not up to them. I feel the same way about Gary's IP, even though I know people have a zeal for it.

Before I got to know Gary, I was a fan of his creations. However, over time, my perspective changed. I feel I should treat him like I'd treat any friend. I felt Gail has the right to try AND FAIL, as she earned it, even if I don't personally agree with it. I feel Gary would have wanted that, and even if I felt Gail was doing something completely contrary to Gary's wishes, I don't think Gary would want me to do things akin to stuff like, for example, Tenkar's dozens of blog posts dinging her over the years, several of them unjustified. If she doesn't want to take other people's advice, so be it. Some folks have accused me of sycophantry or something like that -- but to be honest, if I was that kind of guy, I'd be siding with Luke, as he is probably more successful in that gaming arena. And I really wanted Gary's works printed myself. But from a moral perspective I can't go with the vox populi on this.

That being said -- I was never privy to the exact terms of the Will before, and either because of the Will not being entered years ago, or because the court is looking at what I mentioned before and feels the items are being squandered, then that's probably logical consequences of her choices, and I can also accept that from a moral perspective.

I have to wonder if the Will was submitted and then everything else that happened happened as it did, would the same battle have happened.

Then again, I'm sad that in this timeline everybody was divided, and that Gary died too early.


I should point out that the Memorial Fund has been doing a lot of things. There has been the park bench, the library project, the museum project. Even today, a GenCon Founder Stone is being installed in Horticultural Hall. Members of Gary's family have been in attendance there. Gail and Alex have sat with Ernie and Heidi. So they are doing stuff. Memorials are complex projects that can take a lot of time. If Gail ends up losing control of the IP permanently at least she can focus on all of these efforts.

Whether or not you may or may not be the best person to handle the IP on a creative level doesn't mean you legally or morally should be in control of it.

Do I think most fans have a problem with Gail financially benefitting from Gary's IP? (No.) Do I think Gail is the best person to manage and develop that IP (No) Is Gail the Gygax with the best RPG Industry connections to make best use of Gary's legacy (No). Better relations between her and her stepchildren could have led to a very fruitful relationship where both they and Gail financially benefited, but that didn't eventuate. Whether Gail had the "moral" right to it, whatever, is fairly irrelevant, and every year that goes on the value in it drops precipitously. Do you know why I suspect WoTC hasn't done any "Castle Greyhawk" release? I suspect they are waiting for Luke to have access to stuff that his father produced that they can license. (see previous Dragon+ entries, when they did a Greyhawk interview it was Luke they interviewed, not anyone else...)

I am sympathetic to Gail's mental health and the stress she has been under, and I have no doubt that Gary and her's love was genuine, but I don't believe for a moment she has been a particularly effective steward for Gary's legacy.

 

[Mannahnin]

Regarding the will -- I doubt it, unless there was a change in plan that was never notarized.

The IP question to me is complex.

• Do I think Gary would have expected what happened to happen? No, I doubt it.
• Do I think Gary would have been okay with his designated heirs doing whatever they wanted with it after his death. Yes. (With perhaps some reservations, he was hard to predict).
• Do I think Gary would have wanted fans to protest and even go the point of attacking any of his family members. Absolutely not.

See, in this particular case, I don't think Gary's priorities were his fans or getting his work out there. His priority was his family, and I don't think gaming was the most important thing in his life. Gary was smart, if he really wanted it to be, he could have gone the MAR Barker route and setup some sort of foundation, etc. He didn't.

Trimming it there, but just wanted to say that this is a great post. Thanks for your detailed overview and review of both the facts and your perspective on them.

I should point out that the Memorial Fund has been doing a lot of things. There has been the park bench, the library project, the museum project. Even today, a GenCon Founder Stone is being installed in Horticultural Hall. Members of Gary's family have been in attendance there. Gail and Alex have sat with Ernie and Heidi. So they are doing stuff. Memorials are complex projects that can take a lot of time. If Gail ends up losing control of the IP permanently at least she can focus on all of these efforts.

I will (respectfully) note that none of those things happened until after Gail stepped down as chair of the GMF and handed the reins off to Paul Stormberg in December of 2020.

 

[kparadine]

Gary wasn't the greatest businessman in all history; his various ventures and misadventures over the years should have made this clear. It should be no surprise that his will situation was a mess. It should also be no surprise that his heir was also not the best for maintaining his legacy. One thread running through all his affairs was his lack of trust in external entities - this was probably deserved, but it would be easy to argue that some lawyer would have been a better steward of his IP than any of the above. What licensees mainly want is stability.

The nice thing about the legal system is that if there is cash flow associated with something, things tend to go that way ultimately. Just wish it hadn't taken so long.

 

[JohnRTroy]

It should be no surprise that his will situation was a mess. It should also be no surprise that his heir was also not the best for maintaining his legacy. One thread running through all his affairs was his lack of trust in external entities - this was probably deserved, but it would be easy to argue that some lawyer would have been a better steward of his IP than any of the above. What licensees mainly want is stability.

The nice thing about the legal system is that if there is cash flow associated with something, things tend to go that way ultimately. Just wish it hadn't taken so long.

I think the Will was clear and spelled out, based on what others have said. The only flaw you could argue on Gary's end is it not being filled or handed over to an attorney in advance.

You're making an assumption that Gary was mostly interested in pleasing his licensees or thought of his IP or even gaming over anything else -- I think he was mostly thinking of his family and thus the will is designed around that structure. As I've argued, if Gary cared about the IP over anything else, he could have made something as complex as MAR Barker did with Tekumel, or spelled out the complexity on what he wanted to do. That tells me he prioritized the ability for his heirs to change their minds and do whatever they wanted.

A "legacy" is one of two things in the dictionary:

• An amount of money or property left to someone in a will...which the IP is part of.
• The long-lasting impact of particular events, actions, etc. that took place in the past, or of a person’s life

The second of which, the work controlled by the estate is only a small percentage of is part of his legacy. His real legacy is being one of the creators of D&D, one of the founders of TSR, creating GenCon, and producing a ton of work that is well remembered today and had an impact on the culture. The family only controls some elements that were unreleased. So Gary's legacy in that respect is intact and ultimately is not really in any of the control of the family or estate.

 

[Alzrius]

I'd have posted these updates sooner, but for some reason the Wisconsin court website seemed to be down every time I tried to access it. Fortunately, whatever was going on seems to have been resolved.

That said, while there's been a bunch of activity since the trial, virtually none of it seems to be particularly noteworthy:

• On April 20th, the last day of the trial, there's a note in the docket that simply reads "Exhibit list." Presumably this was the list which was submitted to the court.
• Also on that same day, there's a notice saying "will added to probate" with a notation which reads "Original will filed dated July 11, 2006; four (4) pages." I don't know if this is the will that Gail was using up until the suit was filed, or if it's the newer one that Gary made before his death (as the date listed is less than two years prior to his passing).
• Several entries are listed for April 26th: a letter to the court re: order, a proposed order (which is presumably what the aforementioned letter is about), a proposed notice to creditors (with no mention of who those creditors are), a form in which attorney Steven Koch agrees to serve as the estate's personal representative (I'm not sure if this was a prior letter he signed in that regard, or a new one), and proposed domiciliary letters being issued (i.e. the writ which states that someone can act as the personal representative for an estate).
• April 27th saw the domiciliary letters actually being issued to attorney Koch, as well as the notice to creditors being issued; this latter notice states that there's an August 31st, 2023 deadline to file claims.
• Finally, May 5th saw several affidavits of service being issued. All of these were with regard to the trial, and their entry seems (to me) to be somewhat after-the fact; there's one for a trial subpoena that was issued, one for a subpoena duces tecum (i.e. a writ ordering a person to appear in court and to bring any relevant documents) and witness fee check, another subpoena duces tecum (with a court date of April 19th, 2023 at 8:30 AM) and witness fee check, and a trial subpoena for April 20th, 2023 at 8:30 AM and witness fee check.
• I'll note that, in addition to noting the aforementioned August 31st deadline for creditors to file claims, the "court activities" header on the docket now also lists an "inventory due date" of July 26th of this year.

All in all, it seems that the trial wasn't quite the end, so there's apparently at least a few more months before things hopefully reach a (just) conclusion!

So I'm not sure how I overlooked it in my summary here, but there was an order issued by Judge Koss on April 27th, one week after the trial concluded, which apparently settled the matter of which will was to be entered into probate (i.e. which will would be held as valid).

To that end, I paid for a copy of the April 27th order, and since this is a matter of public record which doesn't seem to have any privacy concerns (the way the contents of the wills might), I'm electing to post it here. If this is improper, I hope the mods will let me know, and I'll remove the attachment.

 

[Alzrius]

A few minor updates to the court docket:

• On August 28th, a notice of the September 26th motion hearing was issued.
• On August 30th, an affidavit was issued that Rob Kuntz had been mailed and emailed the notice of the September hearing.
• On August 31st, Rob Kuntz issued a request to appear (presumably at the September 26th hearing) remotely via Zoom, and that Paul Stormberg should also appear via Zoom. Judge Koss signed off on the remote appearance(s). A subsequent note on that same day says "received documents," without noting what those documents were.

 

[JohnRTroy]

A few quick observations.

• All we know for certain is that the estate is in a neutral parties hands, and both this auction and the licensing of the IP is to pay for those fees. Nothing has been decided. The re-introduction of product is a temporary thing for now.
• The judge mentioned trademarks. The will specifically states use of his name. While Gail had the trademark to Gygax, Luke trademarked GaryCon and they've used caricatures of Gary and images of him. Potentially the use of that trademark could also become property of the estate. While it is not the full GG or EGG, we all know which Gygax or Gary was being referenced in both cases.
• Rob Kuntz is asking for his castle levels back. Depending on what the court grants, this will probably affect what can be in the Castle Zagyg project if it continues, as I suspect the dispute of ownership was between him and Gary.

The key thing will be the final decision. The will clearly states that all property except some very specific giftable items and the IP belong to Gail, and that Gail is to control it for her lifetime. For argument, I'll assume that the decision of the IP is the only one that could change, as that is the only major item that will be inherited.

I see three possible outcomes for the IP based on this:

• Gail retains controls of it. There may be limits on it -- at minimum, in addition to the natural restriction on it from the term "use and enjoyment", I suspect at minimum she will be accountable to produce financial statements to all the prospective heirs.
• It is put in the hands a neutral party to manage -- Gail gets the profits from it while she lives, but the control is done by the estate manager, with or without recommendations by the other parties of interest. When Gail dies, it gets transfered like it would have anyway.
• Gail forfeits it and it goes in the hands of all six kids, who then may be free (based on majority vote) to license it, sell it, do what they want with it, etc.

This will all depend on how the judge considers the arguments. The non-delivery of the will may be considered, as well as the lack of use of the IP -- the latter might be considered misuse depending on how the petitioner's side argues their case. However, the estate is still intact -- the non delivery of it doesn't materially change the state of the estate, unlike other cases where actual property set aside for others was sold, transferred, or perverted in intent, and I'm sure the other side will argue that. And there's also no standard that Gail has to maximize the profit of the IP portion either. That part is really fuzzy. The judge has to balance all these factors as well as still try to execute the Will as written as best as they possibly can.

All this is pretty hard to predict.

 

[aramis erak]

I see three possible outcomes for the IP based on this:

• Gail retains controls of it. There may be limits on it -- at minimum, in addition to the natural restriction on it from the term "use and enjoyment", I suspect at minimum she will be accountable to produce financial statements to all the prospective heirs.

Highly unlike, given the current ruling includes
"9. Gail Carpenter Gygax is disqualified from acting as personal representative of the Estate of Ernest Gary Gygax, Sr."

Plus, the way TriGee is voided in this order implies it to have been unlawful; that's a great reason to bar her.

She was a witness on the new will yet submitted the old - possible perjury or forsworn falsification. Also a good reason to bar her.

That the effect of the older will was to deprive others of their leally due share is also grounds to disqualify her.

She'll be lucky if she doesn't get referred for prosecution.

 

[DarkCrisis]

I still want to know her motivation for withholding everything. Just holding a good price would come along someday seems dumb after a certain amount of time had passed. Im sure she got good offers…