E6: The Game Inside D&D

[wolfpunk]

Ok to make sure I understand correctly. If I was playing in your campaign, I would make a character say a 3rd level warrior 3rd level wizard. I then get to add another 6 levels. So could I choose to take another 6 levels of wizard and thus be a 9th level wizard, or can I only take 3 levels of wizard and then 3 levels of a different class or prc?

I have had the same idea of doing gestalt with npc classes. So you can be a warrior wizard or an expert fighter, but still only getting 6 class levels. I prefer to run e7 actually, but that is beside the point.

I am wondering, if you run your gestalt idea, and lets say I can become a 9th level wizard, perhaps spells still cap at 3rd level, but you get the higher level spell slots for use of metamagic feats, that could be pretty cool.

Just a thought.

On a side note getting back to the idea of prestige classes as base classes, what does someone think about the eldritch knight as a base class. You get 3rd level spells as a wizard or 2nd level spells as a sorcerer, full bab, one good save and d6 hit points, but you do not have any armor or weapon proficiencies. In the long run with the extra feats you can purchase the weapon and armor proficiencies you want, but more than likely you are going to use an early feat to get a weapon proficiency, so how do we feel that balances out? Would an eldritch knight make the wizard or sorcerer obsolete? What if the eldritch knight had to be a sorcerer, would that be more balanced?

I am leaning that way, let the eldritch knight exist but they use the sorcerer spell progression.

 

[Salthorae]

Just a quick note, under Gestalt rules you can't take the same class at the same levels.

SO you can't do warrior 3/wizard 3 // wizard 6 as for the last three levels those wizard levels overlap. If you choose classes that give the same bonus, they only accrue at the faster classes rate (not both). the example given is Uncanny Dodge. A Barbarian 5/Rogue 5 would only gain the Improved Uncanny Dodge of of the Barbarian at 5th level, and use the feature as a Barbarian 5. It wouldn't gain Uncanny Dodge at Barbarian 2 and then improved uncanny dodge at 4 just because the rogue gains Uncanny Dodge at 4, since Barbarian is the "faster rate" for uncanny dodge you only get it from Barbarian class...

So in this example you would waste 3 gestalt levels as an effective Warrior 3/Wizard 6, not Warrior 3/Wizard 9

SRD Gestalt Rules
[sblock=Gestalt Level up quote]A gestalt character follows a similar procedure when he attains 2nd and subsequent levels. Each time he gains a new level, he chooses two classes, takes the best aspects of each, and applies them to his characteristics. A few caveats apply, however. (Emphasis mine)[/sblock]

 

[Kingreaper]

Ok to make sure I understand correctly. If I was playing in your campaign, I would make a character say a 3rd level warrior 3rd level wizard. I then get to add another 6 levels. So could I choose to take another 6 levels of wizard and thus be a 9th level wizard, or can I only take 3 levels of wizard and then 3 levels of a different class or prc?

Only 3 more levels of wizard.

But you don't only get to gestalt two classes. Eventually you could be a (Fighter 2+Warrior 3)/Wizard 6/cleric 6, or whatever. But you'd have less feats than your buddy the (Thief-acrobat 3+Aristocrat 3)/Rogue 6; and no more hitdice.

Eventually, you'll have a lot of cool powers, but no ridiculous ones.
And for a long time, you'll keep that touch of who you once were. You, like everyone else, started off with NPC classes.

Of course, picking what prestige classes are acceptable to add in as gestalts will give some issues.

I have had the same idea of doing gestalt with npc classes. So you can be a warrior wizard or an expert fighter, but still only getting 6 class levels. I prefer to run e7 actually, but that is beside the point.

I am wondering, if you run your gestalt idea, and lets say I can become a 9th level wizard, perhaps spells still cap at 3rd level, but you get the higher level spell slots for use of metamagic feats, that could be pretty cool.

Just a thought.

That would be an interesting option; not what I had in mind though.

 

[wolfpunk]

Anyone run an e6 campaign using gestalt rules where one half of the gestalt is using the monster class levels from Savage Species?

Seems like it could make for a great planar campaign considering many of the monsters get plane shift at 6th level.

 

[ATNorth]

Thanks. Just, thanks. What I've been looking for since forever.

 

[Kunimatyu]

Thanks. Just, thanks. What I've been looking for since forever.

E6 rocks. If I was playing 3.5 instead of Savage Worlds(my current favorite RPG), it's what I'd be doing.

I'd advise NOT house-ruling it at first, despite the temptation to do so - it works very very well on its own. If you really really want to, I'd recommend the "capstone" feats you'll find earlier in the thread.

Oh, and when Ryan is talking about the Death Flag, listen. It's almost better than E6 by itself.

 

[Werebat]

Here's an Incantation I use in my E6 campaign. Sort of a replacement for Teleport as used to nip off to sell loot and buy supplies:


Brass Bazaar of Nasab Pasha Al-Haruf
Conjuration
Effective Level: 6th
Skill Check: Knowledge (arcana) DC 22, 3 successes; Knowledge (planes) DC 22, 3 successes (but see below)
Failure: Special
Components: V, S, M, B
Casting Time: 60 minutes
Range: Very Close (See Below)
Duration: 6 Hours
Saving Throw: None (DC 19 Backlash)
Spell Resistance: No

Created by one of the great Pashas of the fabled City of Brass, this incantation gates in a powerful efreet in the Pasha's service for the sole purpose of trading with the caster (and his or her allies, time permitting). The efreet is under no compulsion to serve the caster and maintains its own free will, but it is tasked by its master to provide service in the form of purchasing and selling valuable items.
The magic of the incantation enables the efreet to return home as a standard action and then come back once, if it chooses. This allows it to take valuables back to its master's vaults and return with items purchased by the caster. These vaults are extensive, allowing the caster to buy and sell as if in a large city.
When the incantation is cast, the caster may choose to attract the aid of the efreet by offering it a consideration for itself; this is identical in effect to using an "expensive material component", but anything non-flammable may be used. An offering worth 500 gp or more will subtract 1 from the DCs required to complete the invocation, an offering worth 5000 gp or more will subtract 2, and one worth at least 25,000 gp will lower the DCs by 4 points.
During the incantation, the temperature around the caster will grow steadily warmer and drier until it exceeds 110 degrees. After the first 10 minutes of casting, the caster and all within a 20' radius must make Fortitude saves every 10 minutes or suffer the effects of severe heat, as described on page 303 of the DMG. When the incantation is completed, the efreet will arrive in an explosion of elemental flame, effectively a 10d6 fireball centered on the caster.
In general, the genie will honor its bargains, but those who deal with the efreet are wise to do so from a position of strength and some degree of skepticism. One must be careful to avoid offending the genie, however. It is under no compulsion to serve the caster and its true master is generally understanding if it leaves abruptly or even attacks in response to having been insulted by mere mortals. There are many, many ways to offend an efreet, and a caster who appears weak and vulnerable with a large amount of valuables can be assured that the genie will be looking for an excuse to relieve him of them.
It goes without saying that a failed attempt at completing this invocation is highly insulting to the efreet, who will attack immediately if it thinks itself likely to win and vanish if it thinks not (taking any offering with it, of course). Those who kill an efreet conjured by this spell are noted by the Pasha, who may or may not take action against them.

 

[Werebat]

Here's another Incantation I use in my E6 game, which is set in Eberron (some bits of it involving Manifest Zones won't make sense for other game worlds)


Manifest Passage
Conjuration (Teleportation)
Effective Level: 6th
Skill Check: Knowledge (Arcana) DC 25, 3 Successes; Knowledge (The Planes) DC 25, 3 Successes
Failure: Special
Components: V, S, M, F, XP
Casting Time: 60 minutes
Range: Touch
Target or Targets: Yourself plus up to seven other willing creatures joining hands
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless) (DC 16 + caster's Cha modifier)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

If successfully cast within a manifest zone, this incantation will transport the caster and up to seven willing creatures who participate in the incantation to the part of the plane that the manifest zone connects to. While this is a one-way trip, the destination is typically a manifest zone leading to Eberron, so it is possible to return via another casting of the incantation. The specific destination is always a random point somewhere within the manifest zone, as close to solid ground and in an environment that is as close to habitable as possible for the caster considering the destination plane.

Failure: If two consecutive knowledge checks are failed, a denizen of the plane that is trying to be reached is wrenched through the weakened fabric between the planes. This creature is not controlled by the caster and will not automatically return home. It will most likely be at least annoyed with the caster and may choose to attack or flee the scene to cause trouble nearby, depending on its nature.

Focus: Each plane has its own focus that must be used to complete the incantation required to reach it; reaching Lammania requires ritual slashing of the barriers between worlds with a specially crafted silver dagger set with moonstones, for example. A DC 25 Knowledgelanes check is required to know the exact nature of these foci or to recognize one, although a list of them is generally included in any tome including the incantation. Regardless of their actual composition, each of these foci is worth 5,000 gp.

XP Component: 100 XP.

Campaign Use: This incantation provides E6 epic-level (or very brave/foolhardy lower-level) PCs with a means of travel between the planes connected to the world of Eberron. Such passage is not without its danger or cost and is not likely to be attempted frivolously. Most communities located on or near manifest zones (such as Sharn) are aware of this incantation and have officially outlawed (or at least tightly restricted) its use for fear of marauding Outsiders that could be pulled through the planes to cause them trouble should a caster fail to complete the rituals properly.

 

[slwoyach]

Brass Bazaar of Nasab Pasha Al-Haruf
Conjuration
Effective Level: 6th

I really like this incantation.

 

[Werebat]

I really like this incantation.

Well thanks! I think one of the key areas for E6 that still needs work is an expanded incantation list. The way to start is to think of aspects of high-level play that one wants at least certain facets of in an E6 game. Being able to return a petrified character to flesh again is one example -- the "Brass Bazaar" incantation is another (it enables the party to cash in and outfit themselves when they're far away from civilization for extended periods of time).

In my Eberron game, I have the higher level dragonmarks (unattainable in E6) converted to incantations that can only be performed by people with the appropriate dragonmark at the highest level attainable in E6. For example, there is an incantation that basically mimics the "Heal" spell that can only be performed by halflings who possess the Lesser Dragonmark of House Jorasco.

- Ron ^*^