D&D 5E Ed Greenwood's 'Death Masks' and Greyhawk

[MonsterEnvy]

There is also the simple fact that Evil rules half the globe. One of the points made when discussing D&D settings, is that the forces of evil are much more powerful in Greyhawk then most settings.

On the Vecna thing. While his ultimate plan to destroy the multiverse fails in Die Vecna Die. He still ends the adventure better off then before. (Despite the name of the adventure it's impossible for Vecna to actually die in it.) His plan fails and he is booted back to Greyhawk by the Lady of Pain, losing the power of a greater god and becoming a lesser god, and only succeeding in minorly changing how the universe works. (the 2e to 3e changes.) While this looks like a defeat, when the adventure starts Vecna is only a Demigod and is trapped in Ravenloft. At the end he is back in his home plan and has increased in power by becoming a lesser god.

 

[Caliburn101]

Seems to me the difference has to do with era, more than anything; Greyhawk feels more early middle ages, Forgotten Realms has a more Renaissance vibe.

You are about right about the period-vibe of the two worlds, but this is irrelevant to the level of evil involved.

Hell, FR is so fluffy P) that they had to borrow Elemental Evil (Temple of Elemental Evil) and Storm King's Thunder (Against the Giants) plot devices from Greyhawk to fill the holes in the Forgotten Realms dark conspiracies and world-altering schemes rota...

 

[MonsterEnvy]

You are about right about the period-vibe of the two worlds, but this is irrelevant to the level of evil involved.

Hell, FR is so fluffy P) that they had to borrow Elemental Evil (Temple of Elemental Evil) and Storm King's Thunder (Against the Giants) plot devices from Greyhawk to fill the holes in the Forgotten Realms dark conspiracies and world-altering schemes rota...

Elemental Evil has been a multiversel threat for a while. (Added on the Temple of Elemental evil is actually really different from the stuff in Princes. Like the fact that it has little to do with elemental evil, being more about Zuggtmoy and Iuz) And Giants have been around in lots of settings. FR was actually the first setting to dig into giant culture and stuff like the Orderning. So this comment is unfair to FR.

All that really needs to be said is that evil is a more powerful force in Greyhawk.

 

[Mecheon]

I'm pretty sure after a point Faerun just starts absorbing parts off of other worlds

Y'know how it goes. Sort of like how Thunderfury (From Warcraft) and the axe of Sankis (From Dwarf Fortress) ended up in Diablo

(so help me I will come up with some crazy thing about how the enemy of a certain world-eating aspect of a time god ends up dumping bits of other worlds in other places)

 

[Caliburn101]

Elemental Evil has been a multiversel threat for a while. (Added on the Temple of Elemental evil is actually really different from the stuff in Princes. Like the fact that it has little to do with elemental evil, being more about Zuggtmoy and Iuz) And Giants have been around in lots of settings. FR was actually the first setting to dig into giant culture and stuff like the Orderning. So this comment is unfair to FR.

All that really needs to be said is that evil is a more powerful force in Greyhawk.

Indeed.

However, it was WoTC who decided for some reason they didn't have enough FR material to fill a few adventures and plucked ideas from Greyhawk... or should I say, due to the limitations of the online MMO... FR has to stuff different cool stuff into a very limited area and cannot explore the other interesting parts of FR due to commercialistic constraints.

So, yes, not FR's fault, just the MMO and parent company bean counters - ever the suppressors of creativity...

 

[Caliburn101]

There is also the simple fact that Evil rules half the globe. One of the points made when discussing D&D settings, is that the forces of evil are much more powerful in Greyhawk then most settings.

On the Vecna thing. While his ultimate plan to destroy the multiverse fails in Die Vecna Die. He still ends the adventure better off then before. (Despite the name of the adventure it's impossible for Vecna to actually die in it.) His plan fails and he is booted back to Greyhawk by the Lady of Pain, losing the power of a greater god and becoming a lesser god, and only succeeding in minorly changing how the universe works. (the 2e to 3e changes.) While this looks like a defeat, when the adventure starts Vecna is only a Demigod and is trapped in Ravenloft. At the end he is back in his home plan and has increased in power by becoming a lesser god.

Yeah... don't EVER play poker with Vecna. You lose, you LOSE.... you win, he wins...

 

[Parmandur]

You are about right about the period-vibe of the two worlds, but this is irrelevant to the level of evil involved.

Hell, FR is so fluffy P) that they had to borrow Elemental Evil (Temple of Elemental Evil) and Storm King's Thunder (Against the Giants) plot devices from Greyhawk to fill the holes in the Forgotten Realms dark conspiracies and world-altering schemes rota...

Yeah, don't really see any alignment bit as a defining distinction between them; both have evil threats all over the place. Heck, in FR, most of the "nice" states are complicit with super-shady elements for profit (Skullport, for instance). Really not much of a distinction there.

I will say that Waterdeep is a much more Canadian vision of the Sword and Sorcery megacity trope, though.

 

[Mercule]

I wouldn't say plagerized, that's not fair, but I will say FR tends to well eat other settings.

This. My understanding is that the Realms pre-date any tie to a game system. They're, at least at the core, their own thing.

Once TSR got involved, the Realms definitely started becoming something else, though. If it existed anywhere in D&D canon, it had to exist in the Realms. While any vanilla (and most non-vanilla) D&D worlds are implicitly "kitchen sink", the Realms started to take on a feel of "you don't need another setting, when you have me". When WotC came along, it seemed to double-down on the whole thing. This, more than anything, is probably why I despise the Realms and refuse to buy product supporting it.

I remember the old Dragon articles with Mordenkainen, Elminster, and Dalamar sitting around talking about various things. They were actually pretty interesting. The use of such iconic, powerful, and knowledgeable characters, especially given they were planar travelling, allowed a certain level of in-character meta-conversation.

 

[Mercule]

Yeah, don't really see any alignment bit as a defining distinction between them; both have evil threats all over the place. Heck, in FR, most of the "nice" states are complicit with super-shady elements for profit (Skullport, for instance). Really not much of a distinction there.

The big difference, that I see, is that the heroes of the Realms tend to be actually heroic. Their alignment is some flavor of Good. Maybe not universally, but as a general rule.

This is not the case with Greyhawk. The phrase "evil-hating neutrals" was used all over the place. Most of the protagonists were really just interested in accumulating treasure or power for personal use and protection. If they happened to stop an evil cult or demi-god in the process, it was really out of self-interest, whether due to direct threat or just because Oerth is where they keep their stuff and moving boxes are dreadfully inconvenient at that scale. The iconic Mordenkainen was "actively" and intentionally neutral, only getting involved when the wheels came off.

Thus, the Realms are more high-to-epic fantasy while Greyhawk is swords and sorcery to heroic fantasy. There's plenty of overlap, but the tone does tend to be a bit different.

 

[Parmandur]

The big difference, that I see, is that the heroes of the Realms tend to be actually heroic. Their alignment is some flavor of Good. Maybe not universally, but as a general rule.

This is not the case with Greyhawk. The phrase "evil-hating neutrals" was used all over the place. Most of the protagonists were really just interested in accumulating treasure or power for personal use and protection. If they happened to stop an evil cult or demi-god in the process, it was really out of self-interest, whether due to direct threat or just because Oerth is where they keep their stuff and moving boxes are dreadfully inconvenient at that scale. The iconic Mordenkainen was "actively" and intentionally neutral, only getting involved when the wheels came off.

Thus, the Realms are more high-to-epic fantasy while Greyhawk is swords and sorcery to heroic fantasy. There's plenty of overlap, but the tone does tend to be a bit different.

I dunno, from the Knights of Myth Drannor and the Venturing Company, down to Acquisitions, Inc. I would day the average FR character is fairly shady, or at least not somebody I would care for in a neighbor?