D&D General "Effect as per the spell"

[Lanefan]

Forced movement is a thing.

In 4e, yes; but in 5e? (other, of course, than having someone pick you up and throw you; but that's always been a hazard unrelated to the presence or absence of a Pr. Wall)

It doesn't dumb down the game, it increases playability and gives the GM freedom to decide corner cases. You should give Shadowdark a try.

Perhaps, yes.

 

[TwoSix]

It doesn't dumb down the game, it increases playability and gives the GM freedom to decide corner cases. You should give Shadowdark a try.

If you really want to see a trimmed down spell description, look here. It's the spell list for the OSR (NSR, really) game Cairn.

 

[Reynard]

In 4e, yes; but in 5e? (other, of course, than having someone pick you up and throw you; but that's always been a hazard unrelated to the presence or absence of a Pr. Wall)

My Warlock in a Rappan Athuk campaign I play in moves people all over the place. And there's thorn whip.and shove. Etc...

 

[Yalım]

Probably already addressed earlier in the thread, but I really like this "function call" style of design. It codifies potentially complex interactions and allows me to apply a single formula / spell across multiple creatures. A slaad, an arcanoth, a flameskull, and a random fire mage all use the same  fireball and that's great for me. I want to minimize how much brainpower I spend tracking the minutae of my monsters, so I can focus on tactics, roleplaying, evocative descriptions, etc.

What I also want in these cases is a  copy of the spell, or at least a synopsis, alongside the item / monster / whatever, so that if I need a refresher or I'm new to the system, I have an easy reference. For me, it doesn't need to be all the spells, just the ones I might need to look up when the situation is time-sensitive. When I need to adjudicate a weird rules issue or do something tricky, then I'll look up the full description.

 

[MarkB]

What I also want in these cases is a  copy of the spell, or at least a synopsis, alongside the item / monster / whatever, so that if I need a refresher or I'm new to the system, I have an easy reference. For me, it doesn't need to be all the spells, just the ones I might need to look up when the situation is time-sensitive. When I need to adjudicate a weird rules issue or do something tricky, then I'll look up the full description.

This is where using a tool like D&D Beyond is handy - generally whenever a spell or game mechanic is referenced, it's hyperlinked and you can just hover over it to see the full description.

 

[Shardstone]

"The caster and X willing targets within XX feet disappear and reappear at a location designated by the caster that is on the same plane. They appear in the nearest unoccupied spaces to the arrival point. The probability of success is based on familiarity. See the following table. Failure results in the caster and targets appearing 10d100 feet away in a random direction (see the accompanying chart). Roll for each traveler individually."

Do you need much more?

I mean you left out the space the table and chart took up...

 

[Shardstone]

I like long spell descriptions. I get the desire for short ones too. Shadowdark really shows just how great short spell descriptions can be. But I find short spell descriptions really limits the "magic" a given spell can have.

Shadowdark's zine's have many more spells in them, all of them pretty terse. Some of these spells, like Summon Valkyrie, are really cool. However, this style of design essentially eliminates the ability to create really interesting spells. Most of these spells in Shadowdark are ultra-basic, and it leaves the space for spells very constrained. Furthermore, if a spell doesn't have any cool flavor text in it at all, I find the spell very boring. I don't want to know that fireball is just 60 feet range, 20 feet spherical area, 8d6 fire damage, dex. I want to know that it ignites things, and I want the spell to give some idea of how it might look.

In other words, I want the spell to have rizz. Here is a spell I wrote for a product I'm working on. This spell could be summed up, but I like little details in it, and I enjoyed writing this spell. This is what I mean by rizz for a spell. It essentially encourages me to use the spell by using some key words to stimulate the reader's imagination. Without this stuff, the spell just feels like another 4E power to me, and that's exactly what I DON'T want.

There's a reason people like how 5E presents 4E ideas more then in 4E -- it is because 5E puts in just a little bit of effort to get the imagination going.

Exceed Singularity Threshold​

9th level transmutation
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch (special, see below)
Target: Self
Apparatus/Idol: Mass Modifier Machine
Duration: 1 minute
When you cast this spell, you add an unlimited amount of virtual mass to yourself. So great is this virtual mass that it bends space towards you, turning the space you inhabit into a small, nascent black hole.

Initially, every creature within 10 feet of you is paralyzed immediately. At the start of each creature’s turn, it must make a Strength saving throw. On a failure, it is pulled into the nascent black hole and destroyed. On a success, the creature suffers 100 force damage, which cannot be reduced in any way and ignores immunity. A creature that dies to this damage is also pulled into the black hole and destroyed.

A creature destroyed by this feature does not create a Reverberation and cannot be brought back to life by any means, even if it is Transcendent. However, you are also destroyed by the black hole.

The black hole exists for 1 minute. In that time, it pulls more and more material towards it, expanding the diameter of its event horizon on Initiative 20 by 600 feet. You can choose to end this effect at any time, after which you immediately die.

For the black hole’s duration, time dilates around it. Anything within 1 mile of the black hole’s event horizon experiences time at a slower rate then the rest of the Beyond. For every round the black hole exists, 50 days pass for the outside world.

 

[Reynard]

I like long spell descriptions. I get the desire for short ones too. Shadowdark really shows just how great short spell descriptions can be. But I find short spell descriptions really limits the "magic" a given spell can have.

I feel pretty much the opposite way. The less detail the game gives beyond the basic mechanics of the thing, the more interesting it can be at the table. Maybe it is years of playing games like Hero, where you brought your own trappings to the powers, but in my opinion the best thing a spell description can do is tell me the numbers and get out of the way. For example, magic missile or spiritual weapon should not describe the thing at all. What appears to do the damage is based on the magic of the character, their god, the milieu, etc... The book telling you it is an arrow or the cleric's holy weapon or whatever actively gets in the way.

 

[Shardstone]

I feel pretty much the opposite way. The less detail the game gives beyond the basic mechanics of the thing, the more interesting it can be at the table. Maybe it is years of playing games like Hero, where you brought your own trappings to the powers, but in my opinion the best thing a spell description can do is tell me the numbers and get out of the way. For example, magic missile or spiritual weapon should not describe the thing at all. What appears to do the damage is based on the magic of the character, their god, the milieu, etc... The book telling you it is an arrow or the cleric's holy weapon or whatever actively gets in the way.

I'm no stranger to games like Hero or other improv-based or acting-slanted games. I highly enjoy them.

However, I have also played a lot of games with a diverse number of people, many of whom I would call casual at best. For these gamers, it is difficult to come up with stuff on the fly, or to reskin things. Because it's difficult at first, many don't "figure it out" for several sessions, sometimes the entirety of the campaign. For others, they are good at it, but they need something to start them off, and the text helps them with that.

In my experience, and this is purely an anecdote, there are more gamers of THIS type then there are gamers of our type. I can come up with a cool image or thematic at any point for any spell. You probably can too. This is not an ability the general public or general D&D-player has, and it isn't easy for them to gain this ability. Because of that, in order to help stimulate creativity, I'm a big fan of flavor text. Give me some flavor. Some spice. Let the flavor teach my players and many other casuals how to imagine Fantasy so that one day, if they want to, they can create Fantasy whole cloth.

 

[Reynard]

I'm no stranger to games like Hero or other improv-based or acting-slanted games. I highly enjoy them.

However, I have also played a lot of games with a diverse number of people, many of whom I would call casual at best. For these gamers, it is difficult to come up with stuff on the fly, or to reskin things. Because it's difficult at first, many don't "figure it out" for several sessions, sometimes the entirety of the campaign. For others, they are good at it, but they need something to start them off, and the text helps them with that.

In my experience, and this is purely an anecdote, there are more gamers of THIS type then there are gamers of our type. I can come up with a cool image or thematic at any point for any spell. You probably can too. This is not an ability the general public or general D&D-player has, and it isn't easy for them to gain this ability. Because of that, in order to help stimulate creativity, I'm a big fan of flavor text. Give me some flavor. Some spice. Let the flavor teach my players and many other casuals how to imagine Fantasy so that one day, if they want to, they can create Fantasy whole cloth.

Sure. if we are talking specifically about introductory products meant to teach people the art of play, you do things a little different. I would still go for short concise descriptions (not just for spells, for everything) because I can't think of anything more intimidating to new players than a massive tome of rules and exceptions. But I would include some flavor tools. "When you first learn magic missile, you determine what form the missile takes (examples: glowing arrow, screaming skull, miniature dragon, etc)."