D&D 5E Eliminating darkvision from most races

[CapnZapp]

Perhaps it helps if I told you I was joking when I started to talk about myself. I don't actually have any Drow or Quaggoth or Hobgoblin friends

 

[Starfox]

And no, "the others have darkvision too" argument does not hold water. In fact, that argument only reveals that you're STILL not fully cognizant of how remarkably far light will spread if it is utterly dark. You WILL be spotted if you have a light, which is very bad news, since it will make any intruder aware of the existence of a possible target/threat and thus go into "stealth mode", making it that much more difficult to spot them in time.

One way to solve this dilemma is that races with darkvision don't see low light. At all. Yes, they see color in full light, and they see further when ambient light is present, but they cannot tell if the area nearby is in low light or no light. Thus, using a low light source of light, the rogue can still sneak. The problem is that the rogue won't be able to see beyond his limited light source.

Yes, from a scientific standpoint it is far-fetched.

 

[Starfox]

Low-Light Vision

Characters with low-light vision have eyes that are so sensitive to light that they can see twice as far as normal in dim light.

Characters with low-light vision can see outdoors on a moonlit night as well as they can during the day.

Overall, I am not a fan of 4E, but they did some things right. One of these things was low-light vision; in 4E low light vision let you see in low light conditions as in daylight. That resolves all issues outdoors (as the night outdoors generally is low-light and not darkness) and is very simple to use indoors. The "light sources reach twice as far" version is much harder to use.

 

[CapnZapp]

Overall, I am not a fan of 4E, but they did some things right. One of these things was low-light vision; in 4E low light vision let you see in low light conditions as in daylight. That resolves all issues outdoors (as the night outdoors generally is low-light and not darkness) and is very simple to use indoors. The "light sources reach twice as far" version is much harder to use.

Then you'll be delighted to know that's what I wrote too

But for those that have an issue, which version of low-light vision do you prefer?

1) Double the range of vision for bright light/dim light
2) Dim light = bright light; darkness = darkness

If I had to choose only one of your selections (say I couldn't use the 3rd ed definition for some reason), I would definitely go with your #2, since it is the simplest and quickest, and I'm assuming it still grants the most important benefit (the moonlight-in-forest benefit).

 

[CapnZapp]

One way to solve this dilemma is that races with darkvision don't see low light. At all. Yes, they see color in full light, and they see further when ambient light is present, but they cannot tell if the area nearby is in low light or no light. Thus, using a low light source of light, the rogue can still sneak. The problem is that the rogue won't be able to see beyond his limited light source.

Yes, from a scientific standpoint it is far-fetched.

Not trying to nitpick you, but this also bypasses the real issue.

The issue is that the point of light itself (the actual pinprick of light) can be seen for miles.

The whole point is that this isn't even adressed by most fantasy rulesets. It has nothing to do with the range of a lamp or lantern.

Yes, a candle sheds bright light in a 5-foot radius and dim light for an additional 5 feet. But somebody can see the light from several hundred feet away.

Sure you can shield the light (cup your hand in front of the candle), but in the specific instance bullseye lantern plus underdark, even the ambient light aura (reflected from your own body, seeping through any cloth you use to dampen the light) will be enough for somebody to notice somebody or something is approaching, and even from around bends in the grottos and corridors.

The difference between utter and complete darkness and... not that.. is enormous.

Hope you see I'm not directing this towards you specifically Starfox. Best regards

 

[Starfox]

Hope you see I'm not directing this towards you specifically Starfox. Best regards

No worries, and same to you. Glad we can discuss the topics, and not each other.

The idea was that if you see in the dark, the difference between weak points of light and darkness disappears. This would make light sources invisible as long as they're not bright enough to let you see their surroundings.

In many cases, it seems to me that darkvision is not vision at all, it is a supernatural sense. A lesser kind of blindsight. If it is not vision, it need not register light.

Case in point; undead and constructs. Many of these lack any kind of visual organ, but still "see" and have darkvision. To me, this implies they have a magical sense equivalent to but different from vision.

 

[CapnZapp]

Yes, some fantasy games grant undead "life vision" rather than something with realistic roots.

 

[gyor]

Add in some eerie mist the minimizes vision, or an environmental effect that blinds darkvision characters some what, large caverns that leave monsters room to stay beyond your dark vision.