Elrond

[wingsandsword]

There are a lot of arguments, pretty strong ones, that Middle Earth is a low-level setting, where most heroes are 1st or 2nd level, and by the time you're 5th or 6th level you're one of the biggest heroes.

The old "Gandalf was a 5th Level Magic user" article was one, this essay (http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/misc/d&d-calibrating.html) is another.

The things Gandalf did were more like in the range of a 5th or 6th level spellcaster in D&D (he never really did anything over a 3rd level spell, but he's probably closer to a Sorcerer than Wizard in 3e terms, he doesn't need a spellbook, and treat his staff as a functional replacement for a component pouch), and the accomplishments in battle of Aragorn were big accomplishments for a 5th level character, not a 15th or so.

If Gandalf, after his millennia on Middle Earth was roughly 5th level, Elrond was probably in the same range. I'd also say that many (but not all) Middle Earth elves would have at least one level of Elf Paragon (or Half-Elf Paragon depending on lineage), if not more. Personally, I'd say he might have the Noble class (originally from Dragonlance) too.

Elrond: Male Half-Elf Noble 1/Ranger 4/Half-Elf Paragon 1

By the same token here's how I would put the whole fellowship (by the end of the trilogy):
Gandalf: Male "Human" Sorcerer 6
Aragorn: Male Half-Elf Ranger 4/Half-Elf Paragon 2
Gimli: Male Dwarf Fighter 4
Legolas: Male Elf Ranger 3/Fighter 1
Boromir: Male Human Fighter 3
Samwise: Male Halfling Rogue 2
Frodo: Male Halfling Rogue 2
Pippin: Male Halfling Rogue 1/Fighter 1
Merry: Male Halfling Rogue 1/Fighter 1

 

[freyar]

If you're going with the low-level theory, this looks almost right. I have a couple quibbles, though: Aragorn is in no way a half-elf. He has some elf ancestors 2 ages of Middle-earth ago, which is something like 6000 years and a large number of generations. Elrond is also very specific in calling Aragorn a human, and one of the major points of the book is that he must be the leader of the humans as they take control of Middle-earth. The other thing is that Sam and Frodo don't seem terribly rogue-ish to me, certainly less so than Merry or Pippin. I'd probably go with Aristocrat 2-3 for Frodo (or Halfling Paragon? Don't know that class so well) and maybe Expert 1/Fighter 1 for Sam. Thoughts?

 

[wingsandsword]

True, I remembered that Aragorn had elven ancestry, but forgot it was so dilute. For some reason I kept thinking that he had roughly the same mixed ancestry as Elrond.

So, instead:

Aragorn: Human Male Ranger 4/Human Paragon 2
Sam: Fighter 1/Halfling Paragon 1
Frodo: Rogue 1/Halfling Paragon 1 (I still think Frodo could could as having a Rogue level, but Halfling Paragon seems to fit too)

The racial paragon classes are available at: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm (Originally from Unearthed Arcana, but it's fully OGC).

If you want Elrond using purely OGC info and not using the Noble class:
Male Half-Elf Aristocrat 1/Ranger 4/Half-Elf Paragon 2 (the extra level compensating for having an NPC class level with Aristocrat).

 

[Andor]

There are a lot of arguments, pretty strong ones, that Middle Earth is a low-level setting, where most heroes are 1st or 2nd level, and by the time you're 5th or 6th level you're one of the biggest heroes.

The old "Gandalf was a 5th Level Magic user" article was one, this essay (http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/misc/d&d-calibrating.html) is another.

I don't buy the low level arguements, especially as applied to Gandalf and Elrond.

Gandalf almost never reveals his true powers. In the hobbit this is because he's basically travelling incognito, and in the Lord of the Rings he doesn't use his powers for fear of revealing his location to other powers like Sauron and Saruman. The few instances where he does unmask he is very powerful. He soloed a Balrog which had cleaned out the greatest kingdom the dwarves ever had. He drove away the ring wraiths, which individually had the power to cow entire armies.

As noted before Elrond has stood toe-to-toe with Sauron and lived to tell about it.

Another thing worth noting is that in Middle Earth most powers are not combat centered as they are in D&D, instead they are the kind of out of combat stuff that D&D seems to be terrified of allowing. Galadrial was another ring wearer and one of the most powerful elves ever on middle earth, but most of her powers were for the protection and preservation of her kingdom, rather than 37 varieties of fireball.

Also recall that as portrayed in LotR the elves were past their prime and their powers were fading from middle earth. By the end of the book they were little more than ghosts of the past. But in their heyday they reshaped the world.

 

[mmadsen]

He soloed a Balrog which had cleaned out the greatest kingdom the dwarves ever had.

In OD&D, the Balrog was a Type VI Demon, which had 8d10 hit dice:

Type VI: These demons loom a full 12' tall, and they are highly intelligent. They spread darkness in a 10' radius at will. These demons cannot be harmed by normal weaponry and (as previously detailed) are 75% resistant to magic. Their other singular abilities are: Cause fear (as a fear wand), detect magic, read magic, read languages, detect invisible objects, cause pyrotechnics, dispel magic, suggestion, telekinese 6,000 gold piece weight, use a symbol of fear, discord, deep...​

That creature could take on any number of 0-level dwarves, yet fall to a medium-level magic-user.

 

[Klaus]

In OD&D, the Balrog was a Type VI Demon, which had 8d10 hit dice:

Type VI: These demons loom a full 12' tall, and they are highly intelligent. They spread darkness in a 10' radius at will. These demons cannot be harmed by normal weaponry and (as previously detailed) are 75% resistant to magic. Their other singular abilities are: Cause fear (as a fear wand), detect magic, read magic, read languages, detect invisible objects, cause pyrotechnics, dispel magic, suggestion, telekinese 6,000 gold piece weight, use a symbol of fear, discord, deep...​

That creature could take on any number of 0-level dwarves, yet fall to a medium-level magic-user.

Nuh-uh. Not with 75% magic resistance. Specially if you factor in the suggested rule of increasing the spell resistance by 5% per spell-user level above, iirc, 11. So if Gandalf were a 5th level magic-user, the balrog would have 105% resistance to his spells.

I once stated the Balrog of Moria as a half-fiend Elder Fire Elemental. It clocked in at CR 14.

[sblock] Shadow and Flame, Elder Evil Fire Elemental
Huge Outsider (Fire, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 24d8+120 (228 hp)
Initiative: +15
Speed: 60 ft. (12 squares), fly 60 ft. (average)
Armor Class: 28 (–2 size, +11 Dex, +9 natural), touch 19, flat-footed 17
Base Attack/Grapple: +18/+34
Attack: Claw +28 melee (2d8+8 plus 2d8 fire)
Full Attack: 2 Claws +28 melee (2d8+8 plus 2d8 fire) and bite +23 melee (2d6+8 plus fire)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: Burn, Smite Good (1/day, +24 damage), Spell-Like Abilities
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 10/–, darkvision 60 ft., elemental traits, immunity to fire, resistance 10 to acid and electricity, vulnerability to cold, bypass DR x/magic, SR 34
Saves: Fort +15, Ref +25, Will +10
Abilities: Str 26, Dex 33, Con 20, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 13
Skills: Listen +28, Spot +29, plus 6 other cross-class skills at +13 ranks
Feats: Alertness, Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Initiative B, Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Mobility, Spring Attack, Weapon FinesseB, Weapon Focus (claw)
Environment: Elemental Plane of Fire
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 14
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always Evil
Advancement: 25–48 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment: —

Spell-Like Abilities: 3/day: Darkness, Poison, Unholy Aura; 1/day: Desecrate, Unholy Blight, Contagion, Blasphemy, Unhallow, Horrid Wilting, Summon Monster IX (fiends only), Destruction. Caster level: 24th.

[/sblock]

If you judge that the fight between Gandalf and the Balrog was a tie (since they both died, but Gandalf got better), Gandalf could have an ECL of 14. If we run with that number, Gandalf could stand against 9 ringwraiths for a short time, so we can clock them at about CR 9. Aragorn could have been of 9th or 10th level himself, something like Ranger 3/Paladin 3/Ruathar 3 ("Ruathar" is an "elf-friend" PrClass from Races of the Wild that, among other things, grant long life; Aragorn, if he is a Rgr/Pal, takes the Devoted Tracker feat to stack his classes for several things).

As since the "time of Elves" have passed, you could also rule that they are losing levels as time passes, so Elrond could've been 25th level when he faced Sauron, but is now "merely" 15th (and even so, with most of his might focused on healing, protection and divination).

 

[Andor]

That creature could take on any number of 0-level dwarves, yet fall to a medium-level magic-user.

0-Level dwarves? Like Durin the Deathless? And an entire city of magical smiths and the weapons they spent millenia crafting?

For better calibration of what a Balrog is consider this: Morgoth was the most powerful of the Valar. When the Valar went to war against him the battle literally reshaped middle earth, mountains rose and fell, rivers were shifted hundreds of miles, the map was redrawn.

When Ungoliant (the mother of Shelob) devoured the Golden Tree and was flush with her power she was strong enough to grab Morgoth and threaten him. Morgoth whistled up a handful of Balrogs, and that was enough to scare her off. Savvy? A handful of Balrogs was enough to turn the tables on a being stronger than the strongest of the demi-gods of middle earth.

 

[White Whale]

When Ungoliant (the mother of Shelob) devoured the Golden Tree and was flush with her power she was strong enough to grab Morgoth and threaten him. Morgoth whistled up a handful of Balrogs, and that was enough to scare her off. Savvy? A handful of Balrogs was enough to turn the tables on a being stronger than the strongest of the demi-gods of middle earth.

Of course, if the heroes of LotR are level 6 or lower, a Balrog of CR>6 is pretty much near demi-God power in that setting.

I agree with those saying that Tolkien's world cannot just be converted to the D&D system. Especially magic in Tolkien's world is totally different and a lot less powerful than in D&D. If you try and balance LotR characters with the D&D spellcasting system I agree that even the most powerful (Gandalf, Elrond, Galadriel, etc) are below level 10.

 

[Mighty Veil]

Rules I'll use for my Elrond: Core book and rules only. Max level of 20.

What I know of the dude: He's old. His grandma or great-grandma was a Eladrin. He was that high-King's herald. Fought in some wars. Dabbles in magic but never came across as a great wizard or warrior or even a holy elf. He believed in lawful causes but wasn't about consolidating power under himself and seemed helpful.

Elrond
race: Aasimar
(His blood is celestial. I want to say half-elf! Maybe even add the half-celestial template but he's not the child of the eladrin)
class: Bard 16, Ranger 3, Fighter 1
(He's been around so long how could he not be 20th level. I think bard is suitable, I went high enough to get access of its best spells. Some ranger skills seem needed but no animal sidekick. And he fight in some wars, so a level in fighter)

Alignment: Neutral Good

 

[Oates]

According to his MERP/RM Statistics Elrond is a (utlizing the conversion guidelines provided) level 39 Cleric (Bard/Lay Healer/ Fighter) [MERP/RM level is 65 (85)

Gandalf the Grey = lvl 21 Mage in Middle earth (42 in Valinor)
Legolas =lvl 8 Fighter (no conversion! converted = ~5 [4.8])
Aragorn (Fellowship) = lvl 16 Ranger (converted)
Boromir = lvl 12 Fighter
Gimli = lvl 8 (not converted ... cf. Legolas) Fighter
Frodo = lvl 7 (converted) Scout
Sam = lvl 9 (not converted) Thief
Merry = lvl 8 (not converted) scout
Pippin = lvl 8 (not converted) scout


Treebeard = lvl 33 Treeherd (Druid)

Professions are Rolemaster professions

Level conversions are found by multiplying RM lvl by .6


Oates