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Elves don't Dream

Breakstone

First Post
In one campaign I ran, elves didn't dream. However, the rare elf trained himself to dream, and gained all sorts of neat powers and insight. The problem was that the elf then aged as fast as a human- it was a sort of "curse of dreaming."
 

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Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero
Honestly, this is one of my least favorite additions to 3E fluff (OTOH, I adore the kobold/dragons thing) as I guess it's meant to be a "reason" that elves are immune to sleep spells. That seems unnecessary to me, and it's an incomplete would-be fix, if that's the rationale, because it doesn't explain why elves are immune to paralysis without coming up with a strange explanation for what paralysis is.

In any case, I DM in Praemal (the world of Ptolus), where elves do sleep and dreaming is an important part of their culture and history.
 


Nifft

Penguin Herder
IMC, Elves do not in fact dream. Ever. They cannot enter the plane of Dreams, either. This is either a blessing or a curse from their cousins, the Faerie, who are said to embody Dream.

-- N
 

taliesin15 said:
Dunno bout this. Clearly from the poetry in Tolkien, they sure are doing something close to dreaming.

In the Silmarillion, Melian (or her daughter, the one that hooked up with the uber-human) cast Sleep spells on elves. They worked, too!
 

taliesin15

First Post
Klaus said:
He/She just takes a long time experimenting with several professions and stuff like that before choosing a career path (for instance, if an elf wants a new house, he'll go out and learn bits of architecture and engineering to design his own house himself).
QUOTE]

Which to me raises an even more important point--with their longer life spans, and starting age being higher, wouldn't it seem that Elves would have more starting skill points than other races? Going back to my point about the poetry of Elves in Tolkien, being that their dreaming seems to exist through their poetry and music, doesn't it make sense that most elves should probably start off with at least some Lore or Bardic skills? 'Course this is 3.5 AD&D...where the Elves only live a millenia or so, as it were...
 

WayneLigon

Adventurer
taliesin15 said:
Which to me raises an even more important point--with their longer life spans, and starting age being higher, wouldn't it seem that Elves would have more starting skill points than other races?

It would seem perfectly logical, but for the balance issues. For that reason I think the most common 'house ruled flavor' about elves I've encountered is that they age normally until they hit their late teens or so, then the clock slows down for them s per the rules. There have been any number of explanations as to why elves are not masters of several crafts and professions by the time they would normally begin adventuring - I can even somewhat 'buy' the idea that they have no focus or that they simply live eash day as an hour or whatever, but they all ring false to me.

Back to the topic.

I have no problems with elves not dreaming because they are not human. Humans that are somehow kept from entering a dream state quickly start to develop psychological problems (thought Piratecat is the go-to guy on this, I think), but elves are not huiman. I have no problem either with them having a more resiliant psyche or just not having the need to dream at all. Of course, I'd have no problem with them never sleeping either.

In any case, they meditate for 4 hours. I think that's more than enough time to get in whatever state of brainwave activity is needed for dreaming to occur and for the normal healthy psychological provesses to occur. And for portents, visions, etc to occur.
 

InVinoVeritas

Adventurer
I just always assume that elves are just really big slackers. Until they get the call to go adventuring, they usually just hang out around home, admiring daisies and chasing butterflies and the like. They learn just as fast as humans, but for their first century, they just don't bother to learn much.

I'm reminded of an elf's insult of humanity: "Every day the same, every decade different." Sure, that doesn't sound like an insult to humans, but the translation is basically: Humans live a life where they are trapped into the same short series of actions. However, in the long run, their lives are highly unstable. Elves prefer to live a life in which you can do whatever you feel like each day. The lack of ambition, and subsequent lack of honing your skills, gives you a life that is far more stable. The human sees this as both a lack of advancement and destruction of opportunity, though, which is why the insult means very little to humans. A human homebuilder may spend every day building homes, but over time, he builds a city. An elf homebuilder might spend only one day out of ten actually building homes, the rest spent visiting family, making sure the trees grow just right for the perfect grain, agonizing over the color of the paint, following that squirrel he happens to like, etc.

The elf has the luxury of processing the world at a slower rate. The events of the day may change, but the decades are the same. They do not dream because they do not see the world as humans need to. Bursts of insight, great conviction, dangerous ideas--these are all characteristics (flaws?) of humanity. An elf would never attempt such brazen and unproven tactics. You build a city, but what of the forest?
 
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Vanye

Explorer
Whizbang Dustyboots said:
because it doesn't explain why elves are immune to paralysis without coming up with a strange explanation for what paralysis is.

Elves are not immune to paralysis.
Elves are immune to ghoul-caused paralysis.

They can still be paralyzed by other creatures and methods, but whatever toxin that causes ghoul paralysis is something that doesn't affect elves.
 

Gez

First Post
taliesin15 said:
Which to me raises an even more important point--with their longer life spans, and starting age being higher, wouldn't it seem that Elves would have more starting skill points than other races?
Not IMC because, as long as an elf hasn't mastered the trance, he or she doesn't really learn anything. An elf's childhood is lost in a foggy haze... It can be a real long while until they're built a stable knowledge base in their fleeting brains. :D
 

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