Enchantment, Compulsion, "Ongoing control"

[Jimlock]

Ah, yes, silly me for thinking that when the book says "mental control" in one spot, it means the same as "mental control" in another spot in a similar context, and when it says "Immunity to mind-affecting effects" under the type, that it's referring to things tagged "mind-affecting". Of course. How silly of me.

Honestly, I'm tired of continuing this while you keep throwing at me all kind of irrelevant and irrational stuff, in hopes of... I don't know... save face?

Losing arguments is not like the end of the world, get over it.




"Similar context"? huh... Tricky words you use there Mr. Jack Smith.

And since you 've used "context" so many times during our debate, here's what it really means:

context |ˈkänˌtekst|
noun
the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed : the decision was taken within the context of planned cuts in spending.
• the parts of something written or spoken that immediately precede and follow a word or passage and clarify its meaning : word processing is affected by the context in which words appear.
PHRASES
in context: considered together with the surrounding words or circumstances : it is difficult now to view these masterpieces in context.
out of context: without the surrounding words or circumstances and so not fully understandable : comments that aides have long insisted were taken out of context.
DERIVATIVES
contextless adjective
contextual |kənˈteks ch oōəl| adjective
contextually adverb
ORIGIN late Middle English (denoting the construction of a text): from Latin contextus, from con- ‘together’ + texere ‘to weave.’

Over and out.

 

[Jack Simth]

Mr. Jack Smith

And that explains a few things. Hmm.

 

[Jimlock]

And that explains a few things. Hmm.

LOL... It's funny how you don't give up.

A few minutes ago I PROMISED myself I won't continue this discussion (After all... i did say "Over and Out")...

...but your futile stubbornness combined with an idea of a riddle that has just sprung to mind brought me back.

So here's the riddle I want you to solve Mr. Jack smith:


SRD FACTS:


1)Undead Type

Undead are once-living creatures animated by spiritual or supernatural forces.

Skill points equal to (4 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die, if the undead creature has an Intelligence score. However, many undead are mindless and gain no skill points or feats.

Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).

2)Skeleton

Skeletons are the animated bones of the dead, mindless automatons that obey the orders of their evil masters.

A skeleton does only what it is ordered to do. It can draw no conclusions of its own and takes no initiative. Because of this limitation, its instructions must always be simple. A skeleton attacks until destroyed.

Abilities: Str 23, Dex 16, Con Ø, Int Ø, Wis 10, Cha 1

3)Zombie
Zombies are corpses reanimated through dark and sinister magic.

Because of their utter lack of intelligence, the instructions given to a newly created zombie must be very simple.

Str 12, Dex 8, Con Ø, Int Ø, Wis 10, Cha 1

4)Evil Clerics and Undead
Evil clerics channel negative energy to rebuke (awe) or command (control) undead rather than channeling positive energy to turn or destroy them. An evil cleric makes the equivalent of a turning check. Undead that would be turned are rebuked instead, and those that would be destroyed are commanded.

Commanded
A commanded undead creature is under the mental control of the evil cleric. The cleric must take a standard action to give mental orders to a commanded undead. At any one time, the cleric may command any number of undead whose total Hit Dice do not exceed his level. He may voluntarily relinquish command on any commanded undead creature or creatures in order to command new ones.

And here comes the question:




Since an evil cleric can naturally command a skeleton or zombie, and since you do NOT agree with my interpretation of "mental control" [which is: The cleric mentally (by giving orders mentally - by using HIS mind) commands the undead], I want you to explain me this.

How is it possible for an evil cleric to "mentally control" (as in: controlling the mind of the undead = your interpretation) a skeleton or zombie. Creatures which are:
Officially mindless, with an Intelligence of 0, and with Immunity to all mind-affecting effects.

??????????



Good luck solving the riddle Jack!



Now I'm REALY over and out.

 

[Jack Simth]

Mr. Jack smith

And you still haven't noticed, even after I called it out. Yeah, that explains things.

But your riddle isn't really hard. Even things without minds have sense and action. Insects get hungry and go looking for food, notice that they're injured, and so on. It's even explicitly spelled out that skeletons and zombies can follow orders, they just need to be simple.

So the Cleric gives a mental order, and the beast carries it out to the best of it's abilities. In the case of an intelligent critter such as a vampire (or vampire spawn, or wight, or shadow, or spectre, or...) that can be something more complex than "Kill that".

Or to put it another way: How does a mindless being react to stimuli at all?