Essentials : What to Use and What to Lose? Can of Worms

[Garthanos]

I can easily adjust any to be paragon tier or remove the +2 and +3 bonuses (I am inclined to allow the +1 number bonus on them but the Staff one is ahem)

 

[Tony Vargas]

I can easily adjust any to be paragon tier or remove the +2 and +3 bonuses (I am inclined to allow the +1 number bonus on them but the Staff one is ahem)

I'm sure there's ways to fix them. The better the extra bennie, the higher level it kicks in, for instance?

Although the Sling expertise has similar vibe...

I missed that. I mean that there was sling expertise. Possibly that there was even a sling...

Though I can picture using a sling in melee....


...as a garrote.

 

[Garthanos]

I'm sure there's ways to fix them. The better the extra bennie, the higher level it kicks in, for instance?

I missed that. I mean that there was sling expertise. Possibly that there was even a sling...

Though I can picture using a sling in melee....


...as a garrote.

I noticed because it is the favored weapon of Lugh Samildanach...

(along side the lightning spear that animatedly leaps from enemy to enemy)

 

[Neonchameleon]

Or even what can be fixed...

• Now, giving everyone taxpertise feats (opinions on which ones?) for free seems obvious basically just to remove the choice loss (I see with the problem of feats being too damn good. )
• Can I use the hunter.. or cannibalize it for a real Martial Controller ranger build. At some level I would just like the class consistency of the original game
• Which essentials mage spells are problematically good power upgrades? or is it just because of the class features (could those just be nerfed sensibly?)
• Some of the new spells like toading are a blast as is the shadow spell which minionizes an enemy at death

Off the top of my head:

With the exception of the Assassin (use the Ninja weapons out of Dragon) almost all the Essentials classes work at Heroic tier and fail to keep up with multi-attack powers at Paragon and Epic (the Sentinel being the worst here). The Knight also needs some sort of push protection at Paragon.

And then we come to the Mage. Our actual problem child, even at heroic. Two of the at-wills need beating down:
Beguiling Strands just renders minions irrelevant and has far too much of a push on it.
Freezing Burst makes flaming burst irrelevant. Should probably go down to d4 damage (I like what it does but it's very slightly too good).

But worse than that is the overhaul of the Cantrips and the addition of the schools. The wizard was fine before the mage showed up (although I prefer the idea of school specialisation to implement specialisation) but.

Wizard:

• Four Cantrips all of which have strictly fictional effects
• A free Ritual Caster feat
• A useful ability from the Implement specialisation
• A very short and closed-ended list of spells that get a bonus

Mage:

• Magic Missile + Three cantrips that can be skill-swap powers or have strictly fictional effects
• 2 sets of +2 to two skills
• Two minor bonuses to a lot of spells
• One major bonus to a category of spells

That's a fairly big difference and the wizard absolutely needs cutting back. I'd say to three skills and a single school of specialisation.

 

[Garthanos]

Off the top of my head:

With the exception of the Assassin (use the Ninja weapons out of Dragon) almost all the Essentials classes work at Heroic tier and fail to keep up with multi-attack powers at Paragon and Epic (the Sentinel being the worst here). The Knight also needs some sort of push protection at Paragon.

hmmm

And then we come to the Mage. Our actual problem child, even at heroic. Two of the at-wills need beating down:
Beguiling Strands just renders minions irrelevant and has far too much of a push on it.

For and enchanter with a forceful implement.... aye chihuahua.

Freezing Burst makes flaming burst irrelevant. Should probably go down to d4 damage (I like what it does but it's very slightly too good).

how about just INT mod damage instead. That is the area effect d6 + INT damage plus slow right?

But worse than that is the overhaul of the Cantrips and the addition of the schools. The wizard was fine before the mage showed up (although I prefer the idea of school specialisation to implement specialisation) but.

Nerf the mage school specializations?

Wizard:

• Four Cantrips all of which have strictly fictional effects
• A free Ritual Caster feat
• A useful ability from the Implement specialisation
• A very short and closed-ended list of spells that get a bonus

Mage:

• Magic Missile + Three cantrips that can be skill-swap powers or have strictly fictional effects
• 2 sets of +2 to two skills
• Two minor bonuses to a lot of spells
• One major bonus to a category of spells

That's a fairly big difference and the wizard absolutely needs cutting back. I'd say to three skills and a single school of specialisation.

The skill swaps in cantrips annoy me maybe as dailies, but they still seem like I don't know a skill power or a feat. (I do like their flavor)

 

[Tony Vargas]

I noticed because it is the favored weapon of Lugh Samildanach...

(along side the lightning spear that animatedly leaps from enemy to enemy)

I'm used to seeing Lámfada, you made me google that to make sure you were talking about who I assumed you were.

 

[Garthanos]

I'm used to seeing Lámfada, you made me google that to make sure you were talking about who I assumed you were.

one emphasizes the Long Arm ie ranged weapon user aspect and the other naming emphasizes the skill use....

Depending on ones emphasis he is somewhat buildable but he was definitely the ultimate Tuathan Master of all Skills


http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?527709-Lugh-Samild%E1nach

Would like a reach build rogue or uber skilled barbarian though.

 

[Tony Vargas]

And then we come to the Mage. Our actual problem child, even at heroic. Two of the at-wills need beating down:
Beguiling Strands just renders minions irrelevant and has far too much of a push on it.
.

I played two mages in encounters, one of the pregens briefly. Then, Vincent Draco, with Orb Expertise, Beguiling Stands, Fountain of Flame, and Phantom Chasm (damn, I may not even be remembering the spell names right) - dominated the whole run Phantom Brigade. Minions? 5x5 AE every round. Tougher enemies? Push them, every round, back into the Fountain of 'Friendly Fire' that doesn't burn my allies. Skirmishers? back into the Phantom Chasm with you. Lurkers? Can't see 'em, but I can push them all into that back corner...

Would like a reach build rogue or uber skilled barbarian though.

I'd like any reach build for 4e or 5e that managed to be anywhere near as cool as the ones I got to play in 3.x.

 

[Garthanos]

I'd like any reach build for 4e or 5e that managed to be anywhere near as cool as the ones I got to play in 3.x.

I want to see one on the original fighter chassis for my now called home brew Martial Power III including a revision of Martial Practices and Martial Controllers (oh My) -- I will make a CBLoader release of it (I will likely include nerfing of Expertise Feats, Mage Nerfing, restoration of Melee Training or make an original version for free on a few melee classes with non-strength builds) and perhaps work up a pdf for visual and fluffy elements for new content.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I want to see one on the original fighter chassis for my now called home brew Martial Power III including a revision of Martial Practices and Martial Controllers (oh My) -- I will make a CBLoader release of it (I will likely include nerfing of Expertise Feats, Mage Nerfing, restoration of Melee Training or make an original version for free on a few melee classes with non-strength builds) and perhaps work up a pdf for visual and fluffy elements for new content.

So, you've launched your own Heartbreaker!