Expertise Dice Not Necessarily Fighter Exclusive

[FreeTheSlaves]

As you say, all Warrior classes get extra attacks, and Fighters wind up with extra attacks faster and a total of a half-attack more. Doesn't feel distinct to me - nor did getting more feats than everyone else in 3.X.

That's because the classic D&D paladin started out as a sub-class, but even then, what made them distinctive from the Fighter was the Smiting and the Laying on Hands.

Oh I don't know. fighters eventually getting 5 attacks per 2 rounds, compared to pal/rgr getting 2 per 1, compared to cle/thf/wiz getting 1 per 1. It was pretty defining if you ask me. With weapon spec the fighter was getting 3 per 2 at 1st level - that was noticeable to the other players & DM I assure you.

For the paladin there wasn't any smiting originally. The 17 cha requirement and code of conduct was if anything most defining. The lay on hands, remove disease etc were all just cool powers.

Push come to shove though the fighter was streets ahead because:
A) didn't have to sink probably their best score into cha, which basically resulted in a ripple down effect where the fighter had better str, dex & con - thus Att%, dmg, AC, and HPs
B) got weapon spec which was basically the bonuses you'd get with a base 18 str score, and were aprox 6 levels ahead of the pal/rgr in regards to atts per rd
C) needed less XP so was a level higher for 1-2 sessions every 6 sessions or so

I have seen and experienced the above. The 2E fighter was The Man, and the pal/rgr were their cool companions.

 

[Vikingkingq]

Oh I don't know. fighters eventually getting 5 attacks per 2 rounds, compared to pal/rgr getting 2 per 1, compared to cle/thf/wiz getting 1 per 1. It was pretty defining if you ask me. With weapon spec the fighter was getting 3 per 2 at 1st level - that was noticeable to the other players & DM I assure you.

I have seen and experienced the above. The 2E fighter was The Man, and the pal/rgr were their cool companions.

I think this is one of those "chacun son goute" things. I played plenty of 2E Fighters and found them never as engaging mechanically as they were in the narratives in my head.

If 3.X hadn't really screwed up on the magic side, and if feat taxes hadn't been so high, I would have enjoyed the Fighter more - as it was, I always felt really annoyed that a class that was supposed to be the armsmaster really couldn't afford to be good at more than one schtick, and without feats, schticks were suboptimal. It's one of the reasons I really enjoyed the Warblade and was deeply annoyed at the blowback.