D&D General Explain Bounded Accuracy to Me (As if I Was Five)

MGibster

Legend
The majority of RPGs don't actually worry as much about "balance" as D&D does, because they recognize that RPGs are a game where balance is actually kind of unimportant.
I was prepared to disagree with you, but the more I thought about it the more I came to see your point of view. It's not as if other games don't care, hence why you qualifed with statement with "as much," it's that most of them don't go to the same lengths as D&D does. Which isn't a good or bad things, just a difference in design goals.

I am not sure what edition(s) of D&D the OP is familiar with, but when anyone asks about why BA is good, I point back to mid-to high level 3.x D&D where attack bonuses, saving throw bonuses, skill bonuses, armor classes, and DCs would be in the 20s, 30s, or even 40s or higher.
It's been a while since I've played 3rd edition, but now that you mention it, I remember having higher level characters with some ridiculous bonuses.
 

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R_J_K75

Legend
It's mostly an underpinning of the design philosophy of 5e in contrast to 3e/4e. Since the rules are written independently of prior editions, it probably doesn't need to be directly mentioned.
That said, more designer notes in rule books would be appreciated, if you ask me.
No, it's entirely a behind the scenes design philosophy that was discussed in Next playtests. However, the math of 5E as published embodies the principle.
I figured it was a behind the scenes design feature of 5E from what I've gathered from discussions here on EN World, and most likely came at least in part from editions past. I'd never heard of it until after 5E was released. Seems a short explanation could've helped, at least for me.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
To be very precise, bounded accuracy is the term the 5e team coined to express that increased attack bonuses would not be an assumed part of level advancement. By not assuming that the characters’ attack bonuses would increase as they leveled up, low-CR monsters could pose a threat to high-level characters in large enough numbers, and low-level characters could take on high-CR monsters if they were very clever, very lucky, or both. No longer would monsters far enough before your level be completely incapable of hitting you. Likewise, no longer would you be completely incapable of hitting monsters high enough above your level.

This can pretty easily be extrapolated to ability check bonuses, but wasn’t part of the concept as it was originally explained.
 


Eyes of Nine

Everything's Fine
Basically... all the task resolution is on the same d20. You roll a d20, you add your bonus, you try to meet or exceed the DC.

Bounded Accuracy means that the range of possible bonuses is less than 20 (-1 to +17, roughly) and the range of significant DCs is 20 points exactly (10 to 30) so any roll that your character is normally expected to attempt, the best character will always fail on a 2 and the worst character will always succeed on a 19. Most of the time, there will be less than a 10 point (50%) variance between any two characters.

Means that any two characters in the same situation are, more or less, playing the same game. They can attempt all of the same basic character actions-- weapon attack, common skills-- and have a reasonable chance of success. The range of defenses between two characters stays consistent, more or less, for all monsters and all levels. (Armor Class, at least. Saving Throws are a problem.) The DM can deploy the same monsters against every member of the party without worrying that a monster can't miss some characters and can't hit others.

Near as I can tell, 5e does this fairly decently. I think character non-class and non-spell abilities are too flat between tiers of play, but I'm really impressed by how well they got the game away from numbers go up.
Thank you. Now I understand the "boundaries" of "Bounded Accuracy" and the whole concept makes sense.

(Also thank you to the OP @MGibster for asking the question. It's true what they say - if you ask a question in a large group, no doubt someone else has the same question... That someone is me in this thread)
 

pawsplay

Hero
In many ways, this is a return to form for D&D. If you look at, say, the Rules Cyclopedia, and other classic editions of D&D, Armor Class is presented as a matrix. Modifiers were relatively small and few. Fighters got an increase in their chance to-hit most levels (each level, when you get to AD&D), and by high level could hit the AC of most monsters. Only when you got into things like demons, angels, and very old dragons did you see AC comparable to plate mail +3 and a +1 or +2 shield.
Contrast that to D&D 3e, where a Dire Bear, being CR 7, had a "natural armor" bonus of +7, the same bonus granted by half-plate armor. An adult red dragon has an AC of 29, which is 12 points higher than average person wearing the best-nonmagical armor. It's AC reflects a value twice that of even magical plate armor. This is a cinch for the attacking fighter, who might have a to-hit bonus of +30 or more, but is much harder for the rogue or monk, whose base attack bonus doesn't grow as fast. If the wizard has to resort to a crossbow, they essentially can't hit.
So in 5e, pretty much every "tough" creature, until you hit Challenge ratings higher than 20, has an AC between 12 and 21. Likewise, the proficiency bonus for PCs goes from +2 to +6. Even someone with a flat +2 proficiency bonus can hit an AC of 21 (they need a 19), while someone with +6 bonus and +5 strength and a +3 weapon has a +14, and might still miss (they need a 5). So the two scales are both pretty "flat" already, but it also means that a fighter and a wizard have the same basic "to-hit." So in 5e, you become more powerful through an increasing emphasis, like Strength and special Fighter abilities for melee, or Intelligence for wizards. But the main differentiation between low and high level characters, and monsters, is hit points and raw damage output.
Arguably, while 3e got too unbalanced, 5e might be a little too flat. But the game is playable, balance is pretty easy to enforce, and almost all encounters involve at least some risk or danger. It's not as true in 5e as it was in classic D&D that a group of mid level characters could gang up on a powerful dragon, but it's more true in 5e than it was in 3e. This is especially important for set pieces, where you want a boss (more powerful than the PCs individually) and minions. The boss should be a higher grade of enemy than they usually face, but shouldn't be mathematically overwhelming; the minions are trivial, but shouldn't just be a fancier way of indicating "difficult terrain".

5e mostly addressed "bounded accuracy" by making hit points and damage output fairly linear, keeping base bonuses fairly flat and allowing specialized gear and traits to make the difference, and capping the game pretty firmly at 20th level PCs, with Challenge 21 to 30 representing truly extraordinary foes that would never be trivialized.

It doesn't entirely "work" but it keeps the game together, especially in those crucial levels from about 6th to 12th, when you want a wide variety of both mundane and monstrous foes. When I say it doesn't entirely work, I mean there are quirks, like how NPC warriors tend to have big piles of hit points for the beating they are about to take, very different than the traits of PCs.
 

Kurotowa

Legend
Funny, because it's being added to a d20 I feel like the opposite is true.

Being Proficient at Lv1 means you get to succeed 10% more of the time then someone just "winging it". Yay...
Yes, but that's the absolute value. It's the relative value that's the important measure of how good a boost it is. If that +10% doubles your chances of success, that's huge.

If you go from "Hit on a 10+" to "Hit on an 8+", your chance of success has gone up by 20%. If you go from "Hit on a 14+" to "Hit on a 12+", your chance of success has gone up by 33%. Those are significant increases that you can absolutely feel in play.
 

Vaalingrade

Legend
The majority of RPGs don't actually worry as much about "balance" as D&D does, because they recognize that RPGs are a game where balance is actually kind of unimportant.
They don't have to worry about balance as they're usually designed as games where everything is basically doled out evenly among players and thus there is natural equilibrium instead of having to hew to a tradition-based class system that has to play favorites to keep sales up.
 

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