D&D 5E Fantasy Africa

[gyor]

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Katashaka

 

[Aldarc]

Presumably in such a setting, blink dogs cry out in the night as they grow restless longing for some mercenary company and the PCs know that they must do what's right, as sure as White Plume Mountain rises like Olympus above the Flanaess Shield Lands.

 

[jayoungr]

This was my issue with Tomb of Annihilation, love the adventure but they fall back on those same racist tropes that have been done to death concerning the chultans. For example, every predominately black fantasy culture is a bombed out depleted husk, either collapsed or colonized.

For an antidote to this, try Kingdoms of Kalamar (published by Kenzer & co.). They have an African-analogue setting that they describe as being as extensive and prosperous as the Roman Empire. I don't believe it's been updated to 5E, but it's mostly flavor anyway.

 

[UnknownDyson]

For an antidote to this, try Kingdoms of Kalamar (published by Kenzer & co.). They have an African-analogue setting that they describe as being as extensive and prosperous as the Roman Empire. I don't believe it's been updated to 5E, but it's mostly flavor anyway.

Thanks, I will give that a look.

 

[gyor]

I've always been interested in creating fantasy analogs of African cultures and mythology. I believe they are tough to do well though. Western depictions of black/African cultures even in a fantasy setting, are mired with racist tropes perpetuated to the point where people don't even realize that they reinforce harmful narratives because they are the default depiction.

This was my issue with Tomb of Annihilation, love the adventure but they fall back on those same racist tropes that have been done to death concerning the chultans. For example, every predominately black fantasy culture is a bombed out depleted husk, either collapsed or colonized.

Also...describing European influence in Africa as a negative impression is one of the wildest understatements I've ever seen.

Arrrgggghhh, people see racism where their is none. First off the Chultan human peoples were colonized by imperilist forces, the Chultans were never a conquerered people ever. The Chultans aren't native to Chult, they are immigrants from Katashaka, FRs fantasy African, Chult IS their colony, and they displaced the native Yuan Ti culture. FR is mostly Fantasy Europe, but with heavy colonization and immigration by none white populations like Shou, Taxabi (humans not the Catfolk), and Mulan among others. The only major native none white populations are the Durpuri and Turmish.

Also the territory controlled by the Chultans is thriving economically, its the rest of the area that is a mess. So no Chult does not fit into any African stereotypes. Even much of the wildlife isn't particularly African, more Jurrassic Park.

People see what they assume to see, not what it is. Its very frustrating because they base it on a mix of preconceptions and not understanding the History of the Setting well enough.

Confusing Chult a colony with Katashaka the motherland is like confusing Canada for Europe.

 

[gyor]

Expansion on my thoughts:

Katashaka= Precolonization Africa
Faerun= Europe with Colonization by other contenients and worlds, and native multiracial populations.
Kara Tur= Asia
Zakhara= Middle East
Osse= Precolonization Australia
Maztica= Mezoamerica mostly failed colonization attempt by certain Faerun powers.
Archome= North America above Latin American nations.


Abeir has at least two of it's own contenients, but they are so fantasy based that they don't really compare to any earthly landmass or period of real world history and are far less human dominated and more alien. There might be more land masses on Abeir, we don't know.

 

[UnknownDyson]

Arrrgggghhh, people see racism where their is none. First off the Chultan human peoples were colonized by imperilist forces, the Chultans were never a conquerered people ever. The Chultans aren't native to Chult, they are immigrants from Katashaka, FRs fantasy African, Chult IS their colony, and they displaced the native Yuan Ti culture. FR is mostly Fantasy Europe, but with heavy colonization and immigration by none white populations like Shou, Taxabi (humans not the Catfolk), and Mulan among others. The only major native none white populations are the Durpuri and Turmish.

Also the territory controlled by the Chultans is thriving economically, its the rest of the area that is a mess. So no Chult does not fit into any African stereotypes. Even much of the wildlife isn't particularly African, more Jurrassic Park.

People see what they assume to see, not what it is. Its very frustrating because they base it on a mix of preconceptions and not understanding the History of the Setting well enough.

Confusing Chult a colony with Katashaka the motherland is like confusing Canada for Europe.

First, I never accused WOTC of being racist. There is a difference between trying to tell a story using specific themes, and trying to demean a group of people. My issue is predominately with how Chult was presented in Tomb of Annihilation, by no means a civilized land. Nobody is buying the "it's a lost world homage" when most of the citizens have names like Ekefene-Afa and most everyone looks black. "Chwinga" "Jazculli", even the monsters have African sounding names.

And if you want to get into "deep lore" the primordial Ubtao, defacto ruler of Chult gathered the people now referred to as Chultans via a Couatl led pilgrimage in -c3000 DR. But that isn't important, I'm talking about how the material is presented, most people aren't digging in lore crates to try and headcannon all of this to make sense. They are taking the content as is.

After losing all other settlements, I guess if you call a single port in a disease ridden undead infested land mass being economically successful you wouldn't be wrong but...what a low bar.

I'm standing on what I said.

And with respect, don't talk down to me and tell me what I saw.

 

[gyor]

First, I never accused WOTC of being racist. There is a difference between trying to tell a story using specific themes, and trying to demean a group of people. My issue is predominately with how Chult was presented in Tomb of Annihilation, by no means a civilized land. Nobody is buying the "it's a lost world homage" when most of the citizens have names like Ekefene-Afa and most everyone looks black. "Chwinga" "Jazculli", even the monsters have African sounding names.

And if you want to get into "deep lore" the primordial Ubtao, defacto ruler of Chult gathered the people now referred to as Chultans via a Couatl led pilgrimage in -c3000 DR. But that isn't important, I'm talking about how the material is presented, most people aren't digging in lore crates to try and headcannon all of this to make sense. They are taking the content as is.

After losing all other settlements, I guess if you call a single port in a disease ridden undead infested land mass being economically successful you wouldn't be wrong but...what a low bar.

I'm standing on what I said.

And with respect, don't talk down to me and tell me what I saw.

They only had one other city and it's not destroyed, just hiding in another plane.

And I am "buying" it as a lost world civilization, because it is, look at the ecosystem and the history of the place.

And I'm not talking down to you, I'm just saying it like it is.

A few names that sound vaguely Africanish does not make Chult a fantasy Africa, just a "lost world" type of area with cultures of fantasy Africa ancestory.

 

[Zardnaar]

This is why I listed several African civilisations.

Its not racist to depict others as less technologically advanced as long as you are respectful about it. D&D is roughly 16th century tech and that is around when Europe did start to pull ahead of the rest of the world, it was more definitive in the 17th century. The gap is either not their or marginal before guns became common- the African nations struggled to deal with that, Morocco invading Songhai being a prime example. And magic/magitech can duplicate guns or be more powerful so in a fantasy world its not a given that colonisation as it happened historically will happen. Even then its a slice of history the previous 1000 years (7th to 16th/17th century) before that it was Europe getting invaded generally (Spain, Balkans, Russia) or raided for slaves (Crimean Khanate, Berber states).

 

[UnknownDyson]

They only had one other city and it's not destroyed, just hiding in another plane.

And I am "buying" it as a lost world civilization, because it is, look at the ecosystem and the history of the place.

And I'm not talking down to you, I'm just saying it like it is.

A few names that sound vaguely Africanish does not make Chult a fantasy Africa, just a "lost world" type of area with cultures of fantasy Africa ancestory.

For all intents and purposes it is gone, the other city remains in the disease ridden undead infested land mass. 1 out of 2 cities is terrible math for a nation.

I don't know if you own the adventure or not, but all you have to do is go through the city denizens section of Port Nyanzaru, Wizards was clearly trying to evoke African culture.

If you are still denying that, it just seems like obfuscation.

But I digress, you see Lost World, you're welcome to it. Was everyone in Lost world black?