Fiendish Giant Ant - What Int?

[sad_genius]

Hi all;

This maybe covered in Savage Species, which I don't have, but what happens to a Giant Ant, which is of the vermin type, hence no Int score (and immunity to mind influencing effects), when it gets the fiendish template added to it - which specifies that Int is always at least 3 for a fiendish creature ...

a) Fiendish Ants have Int 3, and are now no longer immune to mind influencing effects.
b) Fiendish Ants have Int - and are immune to mind influencing effects, but enjoy all the other characteristics of a fiendish creature.
c) You can't make a Fiendish Giant Ant, the base creature must have Int 3

???

 

[the Jester]

The fiendish ant has an int of 3 and can be affected by mind-affecting effects.

 

[GrayLinnorm]

And its type becomes Magical Beast.

 

[Starglim]

The fiendish ant can be affected by mind-affecting effects because its type changes to magical beast. A vermin with Int 3 would be immune.

 

[the Jester]

The fiendish ant can be affected by mind-affecting effects because its type changes to magical beast. A vermin with Int 3 would be immune.

There are a couple of instances of oozes, which are also normally 'mindless', that have intelligence scores. They lose the 'mindless' special quality.

 

[Fieari]

The fiendish ant can be affected by mind-affecting effects because its type changes to magical beast. A vermin with Int 3 would be immune.

The vermin type says that vermin CAN'T have Int 3. To give a vermin Int 3, you need to look outside the rules a little and delve into the matter of intent, which the ooze example above provides. Hence, if you have a vermin with Int 3, it is no longer mindless and hence no longer immune. Either that, or you simply never have vermin with Int 3, in which case the problem doesn't arise.

 

[Starglim]

The vermin type says that vermin CAN'T have Int 3. To give a vermin Int 3, you need to look outside the rules a little and delve into the matter of intent, which the ooze example above provides. Hence, if you have a vermin with Int 3, it is no longer mindless and hence no longer immune. Either that, or you simply never have vermin with Int 3, in which case the problem doesn't arise.

Like all monster types, the Vermin type says "Vermin possess the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry)." A vermin can have an Intelligence score if the creature entry says so, just as an ooze can.

I'd be glad to see an example of an ooze with an Intelligence score that states that it loses the Mindless quality or that it is subject to mind-affecting effects. The satanic ichor from the d20 Modern Menace Manual does not say this - instead it says that the creature receives all standard ooze traits.

Mindless is not listed as a special quality for ordinary oozes or vermin so nothing can be implied by its not being listed in a creature's stat block. The Mindless quality says that a mindless creature has no Intelligence score - this is one effect of being mindless, not the definition or prerequisite of the trait. Finally, constructs are explicitly not affected by mind-affecting effects even when they have an Intelligence score, so it's not possible to say that the designers' intent was for this trait only to apply to creatures with no Intelligence score.

 

[Cabral]

Just to reitterate,
[quote SRD - Fiendish Creature]Size and Type
Animals or vermin with this template become magical beasts, but otherwise the creature type is unchanged. Size is unchanged. Fiendish creatures encountered on the Material Plane have the extraplanar subtype.[/quote]

A Fiendish Ant is not a Vermin; it is a Magical Beast. Therefore, the Vermin mindless trait no longer applies.

 

[UltimaGabe]

Just to reitterate, a Fiendish Ant is not a Vermin; it is a Magical Beast. Therefore, the Vermin mindless trait no longer applies.

Does a half-dragon human lose the extra skill point and bonus feat?

 

[glass]

Does a half-dragon human lose the extra skill point and bonus feat?

No, those aren't related to her type (humanoid).


glass.