Fighter's shouldn't have to suck

[Klaude dOrien]

Ask the DM if he'll allow the book of nine swords and switch to one of its classes.

some of the other posters' suggestions may help you "compete" at 6th level but it will get worse from here on in without BoNS goodness

 

[Brother MacLaren]

I'll go against the grain here and say that your feat choices aren't that bad. Iron Will is a decent feat for fighters as it shores up a commonly-exploited weak point. With Iron Will, your Will save is just 1 behind that of a class with a good Will save. What's your bonus? +2 base, +0 Wis, +2 feat, +2 Dwarf bonus (for spells), total +6 with no magic. So you'll make a DC 16 Will save (typical of a 6th-level NPC caster's best spell) about 55% of the time, compared to 45% without it. (Steadfast Determination is far superior, but in my opinion that's an overpowered feat.) The other feats are necessary for Dwarven Defender, and that class's design INTENTIONALLY requires sub-optimal feats. A PrC that doesn't ask any sacrifices is a poorly-designed PrC. You'll get some payoff when you get to Defender.

Dwarven Defender is a good PrC with some great abilities beyond the defensive stance (good Will save, d12 hp, some good class skills, AC bonus, uncanny dodge, and damage reduction). The stance itself isn't bad, although you'll get shafted if the DM says "Oh, of course all monsters can recognize a dwarven defender's stance and know you can't move, so they'll just back off and throw things." Most likely, a dumb-but-tough melee foe such as a hill giant will be happy to stand toe-to-toe and wail on you -- while between your base AC of 24, your +4 vs giants, your +1 DD bonus, your +1 dodge bonus, and the +4 stance bonus, you'll be sitting at AC 34 and attacking at +13 or so. In the time it takes the giant to realize he just can't hit you (maybe one round of Power Attacking, one round of regular attacks), you'll have hit him several times.

Fighters do best when the DM pressures the party with multiple encounters per day, and with attacks that come in waves.

 

[The Blow Leprechaun]

I'll go against the grain here and say that your feat choices aren't that bad. Iron Will is a decent feat for fighters as it shores up a commonly-exploited weak point.

I agree here, the only feats I'd consider dropping (mostly Toughness - worst. feat. ever.) are pre-reqs for Dwarven Defender, so if you want that, you need 'em.

The stance itself isn't bad, although you'll get shafted if the DM says "Oh, of course all monsters can recognize a dwarven defender's stance and know you can't move, so they'll just back off and throw things."

Make the monsters make Knowledge checks. How many monsters have good Knowledge skills? Even with the hill giant missing, there's no reason for it to believe that the reason it's missing is because of the stance. Without some smarts it would just think you're one tough cookie to hit.

Fighters do best when the DM pressures the party with multiple encounters per day, and with attacks that come in waves.

Definitely, but if the casters want to rest you kinda have to rest with them. You'll get killed if you go on without them. You could maybe talk to the DM about some surprise attacks on camp, or random encounters during spell preparation, but be careful what you wish for.

 

[Quartz]

OK, let's bump you to 8th level and rearrange your stats to something more suitable:

Original Abilities: Str(16), Dex(14), Con(18), Int(13), Wis(10), Cha(7)
Before mods: Str(16), Dex(14), Con(16), Int(13), Wis(10), Cha(9)

We're going to rearrange that as Str 16, Dex 10, Con 16, Int 13, Wis 9, Cha 14.

We're now going to make you a Ftr 4 / Knight 4 with

New Abilities: Str(16), Dex(10), Con(18), Int(13), Wis(8), Cha(12)

You are wearing Mithril Full Plate +2, wielding a Flaming Dwarven Waraxe +2, Luckblade (+1). You have an Amulet of Natural Armour +2, a large Shield +2, and a Ring of Protection +2.

Your saves are +12 / +5 / +7. You have 86 HP (on average). Your AC is 28

Your feats are Weapon Focus: Waraxe, Weapon Spec: Waraxe, Cleave, Power Attack, Combat Expertise. You have Mounted Combat as a bonus feat.

Your special abilities are

Fighting Challenge +1 which lasts for 6 rounds. You can do this 4 times per day.
Shield Block +1, which raises your AC by 1
Bulwark of Defense
Armour Mastery
Test of Mettle

At 9th level, you can take Melee Weapon Mastery. If you take a 5th level of Knight for your 9th level you get a bonus Knight feat and the Vigilant Defender ability. Then 2 levels of Fighter and take the two Shield feats mentioned earlier.

However, it appears that the party is used to having plenty of space in which to fight. In this case, you may wish to focus on a polearm with Reach.

Here's another alternative: Ftr 4 / Mk 4. You take WF: Natural Attack and WS: Natural Attack with the aim of taking MWM: Bludgeoning later). When in armour you fight with a heavy flail. (Or you could take WF: Flail, WS: Heavy Flail). Why not TWF with a quarterstaff? Well TWF or Flurry takes a full round.

The feat chain is similar. Remember that Evasion is usable in light armour, so you wear mithril breastplate. Remember too that many of the monk's abilites operate when in armour. Think Disciplined Warrior rather than Oriental Monk. And you'll be top in barroom brawls. Note that Power Attack works with natural attacks.

Stats should be Str 14, Dex 16, Con 18, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 8.

Your BAB is +7 / +2, and you flurry (out of armour) for +5 /+5 / +2.

 

[Darklone]

How much levels more do your spellcasters have?

 

[the_mighty_agrippa]

OP -

Sounds like your spellcasters are playing very loose with the rules. Polymorph has been severly nerfed and the gnome is probably using the old version because it is in his favor. Druids are tough but one spell won't do it - it took several spells for my druid to come anywhere close to a frontline machine.

FWIW, I'm getting ready to play an 8th level S&B fighter and he's a dangerous chap in the party.

The number one suggestion you might make to the DM is to see more encounters per day. If your spellcasters get to set the time, place, duration and frequency of encounters, you'll always be second fiddle to the Sudden Maximized Fireball.

 

[Stalker0]

I'm a huge figter supporter, so much that I agreed to go toe to toe with a buddy of mine, 18th level ftr v wiz, phb/dmg/mm only, and see what happenned. I took an archer focused dwarf, and beat him 5 out of 5 games.

I think at low levels, fighters and wizards are just fine together. But at such a high level, wizards are the win. I think your friend wasn't playing a wizard to the hilt if you beat him so often.

As to the discussion, iron will is a fine feat for a fighter, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Will Saves is what the fighter gets hit with, no one bothers with fort saves, and your hitpoints cover reflex saves. I agree the other feats are weak, but you want a prc, so enjoy it.

It also sounds like your main issue is with polymorph (the druid and the illusionist). Make sure the dm is up to date with polymorph rules. Its hard, theres been so many changes to it, but its purposefully nerfed many times because its over the top.

Also, does your dm allow the "dodge is a flat out +1 to AC" houserule?. I think it is literally the most common houserule in the game, and if you don't, recommend it to him. It will give you a little buff.

 

[The Blow Leprechaun]

I think at low levels, fighters and wizards are just fine together. But at such a high level, wizards are the win. I think your friend wasn't playing a wizard to the hilt if you beat him so often.

I actually disagree with this, in terms of PC versus PC. A high level fighter will easily take more than a third of the wizard/sorcerer's hit points on each attack. If they can close and get a full attack in, the fight ends there more often than not. But that's getting off topic...

Also, does your dm allow the "dodge is a flat out +1 to AC" houserule?. I think it is literally the most common houserule in the game, and if you don't, recommend it to him. It will give you a little buff.

Personally, I think Dodge is a great feat, and rare is the character I build that doesn't take it. Mind you, I rarely play games that use many of the splat books, so our feat selection is generally more limited than others. A dodge bonus to AC is a beautiful thing because it's the only kind of bonus that stacks. Making it count against everyone would make it too powerful, IMHO.

But yeah, as I indicated way back in my first post in this thread, it really sounds your spellchuckers are abusing their shape-shifting powers. At the very least, they should have to make an appropriate Knowledge check DC 10 + CR of the creature they want to see if they're familiar with it (and Knowledge checks are permanent). I'd also never let them flip through a MM to pick their creatures - they either can name it or they don't know it... but then, I hate polymorph.

 

[Jon_Samuelson]

Let's give an update.

I know that the Mage who casts Scintillating Sphere has some sort of boost that makes any spell he casts involving electricity especially effective.

I don't know if the Illusionist is using polymorph properly. This has been errata'd to reign it in a little bit though, I'm to understand?

The Druid is shaping into a Fleshraker dinosaur which is a medium creature.

They are all the same level as me (the Illusionist may be 7th, I can't recall).

I guess there's a bit of descent as to whether or not the Dwarven Defender is a good PrC, but I kinda like it. I'll admit I hadn't really considered that enemies could just walk around me, but that would be a REALLY dick thing for my GM to do, and he's not really like that for the most part. Either way I kind of like that class, but I'll certainly look over the options you guys have discussed.

 

[Felix]

I actually disagree with this, in terms of PC versus PC. A high level fighter will easily take more than a third of the wizard/sorcerer's hit points on each attack. If they can close and get a full attack in, the fight ends there more often than not. But that's getting off topic...

That's a big "If"