Fighters vs mages at high level.

[Werewolf_26]

Go Archer with the Fighter. Pick up every initiative feat you can find, and then, poison the Wizard with an arrow.

Go for a modified (both mundanely and magically) poison that attacks charisma (STR and DEX are important for touch attacks, CON for HP and Saves, INT for casting, WIS for a save. Charisma, if your opponet is thinking strictly of advantages, is the most likly dump stat and wouldn't be enhanced because the wizard doesn't need it generally.). A poison to the tune of 4d6 Charisma damage could be easily researched and purchased by a character that high in level. There are even a few ways to magically tie some spells to the poisons, though I forget exactly what effects can be added. Try to get a poison with a DC in the 50's. Of course, if you could get a high enough INT poison, you could just shut down his ability to cast spells (or at least the powerful ones.)

It really does come down to range and who gets initiative. As it has been said, the classes are meant to compliment each other, not fight.

Besides, the best way to kill things is with a Heavy Pick, while their sleeping.

 

[silentspace]

Wow what a fun thread!

Werewolf_26, I think you and boredgremlin would get along like two peas in a pod.

I also think you'd be thrashed by any except the most idiotically built wizards. That is, if you use the rules as written. If you don't, well then sure, why not

 

[silentspace]

Yep, 3.0 OA Iaijutsu cheese would work.

That is, if the wizard had an Int of 4.

3.5 Iajutsu Master cheese would work too.

Just in case you missed it, I meant the tactic would work if the wizard was an idiot

By the way, is there a 3.5 Iaijutsu Master?

 

[gabrion]

Just in case you missed it, I meant the tactic would work if the wizard was an idiot

By the way, is there a 3.5 Iaijutsu Master?

Well just to clarify, I was using the Iajutsu Master because he seems to be the only possible option for a fighter who wants to win in this kind of dual. Why? Because as I pointed out before, the fighter has to win initiative to have a chance. The IM virtually guarantees this, plus they have the ability to off the wizard in one round.

Of course you are right and it wouldn't work (you will notice that I was on the wizards side throughout the discussion), but I was throwing it out as an option. Contingency is gonna scew the fighter anyway.

As far as the 3.0 v. 3.5 thing, I was just pointing out that OA was updated for 3.5 in an issue of Dragon Magazine and nothing was changed for the Iajutsu Master. It was originally a 3.0 thing, but I just wanted to set the record staight and let people know that the IM (and the rest of OA) is still good for 3.5 (wih the updates of course). Also, you can check out the epic progression here .

Edit: This brings up an interesting idea for me. Can you trick magic? I mean the IM can hit someone without them even knowing it, so would a contigency set on "when someone attacks me" go off if they failed their spot check and didn't know they were hit? Or is magic too smart to trick?

 

[Virgil Sagecaster]

I wish would of saw this thread a long time ago....

Most of the major point have already been disscussd, so I just throw my 2 cents in the pot .
Its a very good suggestion for the fighter to be archer, since you have the distance on the mage. The best suggestion was by Thanee, when she said you a Grappple+AMF combo (that's the road I would of took).
But ANY, properly prepared wizard, can crush a high level fighter any day of the week. All the wizard has to do is cast an Epic level (with the slay seed and a modfied DC) inside an AMF thats centered on the fighter. All you have to is closed the distance between them.

Another Point of Interest: Most of the this thread talks about a direct confrontation with the fighter. Why dont you approach the problem with more of indirect approach.

 

[Virgil Sagecaster]

I wish I would of saw this thread a long time ago....

Most of the major points have already been disscussd, so I just want throw my 2 cents in the pot .
Its a very good suggestion for the fighter to be archer, since you have the distance on the mage. The best suggestion was by Thanee, when she said you a Grappple+AMF combo (that's the road I would of took).
But ANY, properly prepared wizard, can crush a high level fighter any day of the week. All the wizard has to do is cast an Epic level (with the slay seed and a modfied DC) inside an AMF thats centered on the fighter. All you have to is closed the distance between them and beat the caster level check for the AMF.

Another Point of Interest: Most of the this thread talks about a direct confrontation with the fighter. Why dont you approach the problem with more of indirect approach.

 

[Nail]

Something tells me Virgil has a slow connection.

The Wiz 30 would crush the Ftr 30. No contest, really.....and no need to make it Epic. A Wiz 11 would crush a Ftr 11. I think the disparity starts at about that level.

 

[werk]

Fighter needs to win initiative then grapple and pin the heck out of that mage while shoving his guantlet down his throat. Build the fighter so he can do that and you should be fine. Basically, if the wiz gets off a spell it's game over. Someone mentioned monk, which is a little better suited to do this.

 

[ARandomGod]

Hi there,

Me and a friend was wondering something... what could do a fighter to beat up a mage at high lvl, let's say lvl 30. We said that I would build for fun a lvl 30 fighter (or fighter like, could have some prestiges like weapon master or tempest, or even others) and he makes a lvl 30 mage (or mage like classes/prestiges) and see what one can do vs the other. I know D&D isn't made for player vs player, but still, we would like to see it.

The fighter could hire a wizard. ^_^

More seriously though...

A wizard and a Fighter don't compaire well. If the Wizard has time to prepare, the wizard is a great class. But Fighters can react better to unusualy situations they are not ready for.

Wizards also have more limited resources as their strength is spells and they do run out. A Fighter though can potential attack things for a lot longer.

Having characters fight each other is not the way to figure out if they are even in strength.

Here's the heart. The fighter can catch the wizard unprepared. Fight him after he goes to sleep and all his spell buffs for the day have worn off, after a day where he's used most or all of his memorized spells. When you awaken him from his sleep he'll be unbuffed and have few spells. You can probably take him. As long as one of those spells left wasn't "wish". And/or as long as he doesn't have a scroll of that or something else... and as long as his contingent escape spell has been used up. Etc.

An antimagic field item is an interesting way to go, but simpler would be boots of teleportation and an item of silence (or several, for backup). Port in with a silence field around you. Grapple and kill. And, of course, take the Mage Killer feat chain.

I play Epic level, My 30th level wizard can kill my friend's 35th level Fighter/Barbarian/Dreadnought in one turn, and he can kill me in one turn, it depends who goes first.

My wizard has improved slot(or whatever gives you 10+ level spells), Enhance spell(adds 10d6 to area spells) +4 spell level, and improved metamagic: -1 spell modifier(maximize would be +2 levels instead of 3), which he has 3 times. So, with a 13th level spell, he can cast a 600 damage fireball, 3 times(quickened, multispell)...

This is a very good point. Be sure you take improved initiative, and any other feats/spells/items to increase your initiative. D&D is not a very defensive game, it heavily encourages offense. At high levels, he who hits first hits last.

Anyhow, I only read the first page of comments so far. Too mcu for me right not, I must have lunch...

(Oh yea, hit the wizard while he's at lunch... then you can also take his food, already prepared and everything. MMmm)

 

[Thanee]

Something tells me Virgil has a slow connection.

Either that, or he "edited" the post by using the back button and reposting it.

Bye
Thanee