Five Nations (especially Knight Phantom)

[stonegod]

So it is basically like the spell Sunbeam, I guess, but divided between a much longer period of time and with a better Area of Effect, plus a number of easy ways to raise the damage (Practised Spellcaster and any turn level items will do it). It's not too bad normally, but I can see how this would be a huge problem for any game that involved undead. I'd probably be more comfortable with it if it were Will negates and/or capped out somewhere around 15d6.

Its instantaneous (sunbeam is 1 round/level), practiced spellcaster would give you a +2d6 if you are cleric 1/wizard 5/pyro 1 or cleric 1/sorc 6/pyro 1, and all +4d6 for the paladin 4/wizard 5/pyro 1 builds (whereas the c 1/w 5/p 4 build would make that up in levels). Turn level items would bump it, yes.

So, cleric 1/wiz 5/pyro 1 with practiced spellcaster does 8d6. If you could cast sunbeam at 7 CL, that would be 7 rays doing 7d6 damage (so, 7d6 in one round).

 

[Rystil Arden]

Its instantaneous (sunbeam is 1 round/level), practiced spellcaster would give you a +2d6 if you are cleric 1/wizard 5/pyro 1 or cleric 1/sorc 6/pyro 1, and all +4d6 for the paladin 4/wizard 5/pyro 1 builds (whereas the c 1/w 5/p 4 build would make that up in levels). Turn level items would bump it, yes.

So, cleric 1/wiz 5/pyro 1 with practiced spellcaster does 8d6. If you could cast sunbeam at 7 CL, that would be 7 rays doing 7d6 damage (so, 7d6 in one round).

Actually this gives more than one too, right?--Sunbeam gives on beam per 3 levels (not 1 per level, though it is hidden in there). This gives 3 + Cha bonus beams (or more if you care to get more)

 

[stonegod]

Actually this gives more than one too, right?--Sunbeam gives on beam per 3 levels (not 1 per level, though it is hidden in there). This gives 3 + Cha bonus beams (or more if you care to get more)

Yes, it gives you total turn attempt numbers per day. I was comparing against one casting vs. one turn attempt. So, the 7th level caster would get 2 or 3 depending if its 3/level or 1 + 1/3 levels.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Yes, it gives you total turn attempt numbers per day. I was comparing against one casting vs. one turn attempt. So, the 7th level caster would get 2 or 3 depending if its 3/level or 1 + 1/3 levels.

I was comparing one casting of Sunbeam to the total ability, though (I picked it because it had multiple hits on purpose). Sunbeam requires one standard action to cast and then you get a few beams in a short time span. This ability is much more flexible--you get more attacks if you have decent Charisma and they can come any time. It is easier to raise the damage and it doesn't cap (Sunbeam caps at 20). Sunbeam is Ref half and this is Will half, so Sunbeam is much more likely to be ignored (lots of people have Evasion, but only Hexblades which aren't even approved yet and a few PrCs have Mettle). Sunbeam is a line and this is an area. So this ability is more powerful than giving them the 7th-level spell Sunbeam as an SLA twice a day (sometimes more than twice) at a caster level equal to their character level (without the usual minimum of course).

 

[stonegod]

So this ability is more powerful than giving them the 7th-level spell Sunbeam as an SLA twice a day (sometimes more than twice) at a caster level equal to their character level (without the usual minimum of course).

Sunbeam will affect everyone, this will only affect undead, who also tend to have good will saves and poor reflex saves. Yes, it will target more undead in one round than sunbeam can and potentially more than a fireball dropped on you could (w/o the side effect of targeting yourself), though an enlarged fireball would cover larger range, and be a 4th level spell (and a normal caster would just be able to cast 4th levels spells when the pyro gets this ability).

So, at the same level, the advantage this ability has vs a CL 7 caster is more times a day and wouldn't target friendlies. At higher levels is where the cap issue would enter in.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Sunbeam will affect everyone, this will only affect undead, who also tend to have good will saves and poor reflex saves. Yes, it will target more undead in one round than sunbeam can and potentially more than a fireball dropped on you could (w/o the side effect of targeting yourself), though an enlarged fireball would cover larger range, and be a 4th level spell (and a normal caster would just be able to cast 4th levels spells when the pyro gets this ability).

So, at the same level, the advantage this ability has vs a CL 7 caster is more times a day and wouldn't target friendlies. At higher levels is where the cap issue would enter in.

Sunbeam also takes one round to set up in which you get no rays, and it doesn't allow you to spread the wealth throughout the day. The cap issue in the Fireball comparison may be effective by level 7--Phylactery of Undead Turning + Practised Spellcaster gives you 12d6. I suppose you could take Improved Turning, but that only gives you one more d6, so I don't find it worth it (whereas the other two are definitely worth it).

 

[stonegod]

Sunbeam also takes one round to set up in which you get no rays, and it doesn't allow you to spread the wealth throughout the day. The cap issue in the Fireball comparison may be effective by level 7--Phylactery of Undead Turning + Practised Spellcaster gives you 12d6. I suppose you could take Improved Turning, but that only gives you one more d6, so I don't find it worth it (whereas the other two are definitely worth it).

Ahh, but we already established that normal turning has no effect on the pyro ability, so I would rule that the phylactery would have no effect on the pyro ability as well:

This item is a boon to any character able to turn undead, allowing him to do so as if his class level were four levels higher than it actually is.

Only things that actually increase the character's actual clerical level would change the damage.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Ahh, but we already established that normal turning has no effect on the pyro ability, so I would rule that the phylactery would have no effect on the pyro ability as well: Only things that actually increase the character's actual clerical level would change the damage.

Quote me the wording--I can't effectively argue when you have it and I don't, of course, but from all the other posts so far, it seems to be based on effective cleric level for purposes of turning, not actual cleric level. So a Radiant Servant of Pelor would get an effective increase (if we allowed RSoP into Eberron under a different name, which I wouldn't).

 

[stonegod]

Quote me the wording--I can't effectively argue when you have it and I don't, of course, but from all the other posts so far, it seems to be based on effective cleric level for purposes of turning, not actual cleric level. So a Radiant Servant of Pelor would get an effective increase (if we allowed RSoP into Eberron under a different name, which I wouldn't).

Not a problem:

When you use this ability, all undead creatures withing 30 feet of you take 1d6 points of damage per effective cleric level. Your effective cleric level for this purpose is your effective cleric level for purposes of turning undead plus your arcane caster level.

Hrm, which means my statement about is off about the phylatery and RSoP would also increase it. Apologies.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Not a problem:
Hrm, which means my statement about is off about the phylatery and RSoP would also increase it. Apologies.

No worries

Hmmm....What if we made it equal to the [arcane caster level] OR [effective cleric level for purposes of turning undead + class level in the PrC].