Patlin
Explorer
I'd propose Five Nations for aproval, especially as I would like to play a Knight Phantom. As you can see in the link, Wizards has conveniently posted the class online for reference. 
Last edited:
Five Nations (especially Knight Phantom)
stonegod
Spawn of Khyber/LEB Judge
Knight Phantom is a cool PrC, and one I've had my eye on too.
Here is the analysis of the book, similar to what I did for Sharn.
Chapters 1-5 have a lot of fluff and a bit of crunch for each Nation.
1: Aundair
Affiliation: Royal Eyes of Aundair. Uses PHBII-like rules. Good for Aundair spies. Gives social skill benefits.
PrC: Knight Phantom. Arcane Knight who rides phantom steeds. Good for Fighter 1/Wizard 5's. 10 level PrC, looses 1 spell level. Can wear light armo, cast phantom steed often, gain movement like a phantom steed, cause fear, and have a phantom weapon. D8 HD.
Monster: Dragonhawk, 8 HD animal. Huge flyer with blindsense 60'.
2: Breland
PrC: Dark Lantern. Compliment of Citadel Elite PrC in Sharn. More combat and espionage focused. Fighter/Rogue combos. Sneak attack, nondetection, slippery mind, and hide in plane sight eventually. D8 HD.
Monsters: Magebred brown bear (Animal 6HD), Magebred Ghost Tiger (Animal 6HD). Discuss use as animal compansions (7th level or higher Druid)
3: Cyre
PrC: Cyran Avenger. 5 Levels, Ranger, Rogue w/ Track enterants. Smite like abilities against Cyran attackers, discern lies and speak with dead, enemy regions.
Monsters: Living Spells, Kraken construct
4: Karrnath
Affiliation: Order of Rekkenmark, PHBII-like military brotherhood affiliation. Influence in Karrnath.
PrC: Bone Knight. Leader of Undead armies. Fighter/Cleric or ex-Paladins. Rebuke undead, graduate undead immunities (critical hits, some DR, etc.), undead leadership-like abilities, death strike.
Monsters: Karrnathi Bulette, Madborn (template)
5: Thrane
Affiliation: Argentum, PHBII-like affiliation for magic item acquisition
PrC: Silver Pyromancer, Wizard/Cleric PrC. 5 levels, gain ability to mainulate fire spells (holy damage, smiting, persistent). Gain ability to learn paladin spell list
Spells: Flamebound Symbol (causes damage instead of turning), Flamebound Weapon (+1d6 sacred weapon damage), Whispering Flame (speak through linked candles)
Monsters: Silvereye Marauder (Improved iron defender), winwyrd (silver flame gargoyles)
Here is the analysis of the book, similar to what I did for Sharn.
Chapters 1-5 have a lot of fluff and a bit of crunch for each Nation.
1: Aundair
Affiliation: Royal Eyes of Aundair. Uses PHBII-like rules. Good for Aundair spies. Gives social skill benefits.
PrC: Knight Phantom. Arcane Knight who rides phantom steeds. Good for Fighter 1/Wizard 5's. 10 level PrC, looses 1 spell level. Can wear light armo, cast phantom steed often, gain movement like a phantom steed, cause fear, and have a phantom weapon. D8 HD.
Monster: Dragonhawk, 8 HD animal. Huge flyer with blindsense 60'.
2: Breland
PrC: Dark Lantern. Compliment of Citadel Elite PrC in Sharn. More combat and espionage focused. Fighter/Rogue combos. Sneak attack, nondetection, slippery mind, and hide in plane sight eventually. D8 HD.
Monsters: Magebred brown bear (Animal 6HD), Magebred Ghost Tiger (Animal 6HD). Discuss use as animal compansions (7th level or higher Druid)
3: Cyre
PrC: Cyran Avenger. 5 Levels, Ranger, Rogue w/ Track enterants. Smite like abilities against Cyran attackers, discern lies and speak with dead, enemy regions.
Monsters: Living Spells, Kraken construct
4: Karrnath
Affiliation: Order of Rekkenmark, PHBII-like military brotherhood affiliation. Influence in Karrnath.
PrC: Bone Knight. Leader of Undead armies. Fighter/Cleric or ex-Paladins. Rebuke undead, graduate undead immunities (critical hits, some DR, etc.), undead leadership-like abilities, death strike.
Monsters: Karrnathi Bulette, Madborn (template)
5: Thrane
Affiliation: Argentum, PHBII-like affiliation for magic item acquisition
PrC: Silver Pyromancer, Wizard/Cleric PrC. 5 levels, gain ability to mainulate fire spells (holy damage, smiting, persistent). Gain ability to learn paladin spell list
Spells: Flamebound Symbol (causes damage instead of turning), Flamebound Weapon (+1d6 sacred weapon damage), Whispering Flame (speak through linked candles)
Monsters: Silvereye Marauder (Improved iron defender), winwyrd (silver flame gargoyles)
Rystil Arden
First Post
Well, the Knight Phantom is clearly significantly more powerful than the Eldritch Knight, but it does have a few more prereqs. I'm for allowing it as per the Wizard's website, with the caveat that as a Living World, we take flavour and RP requirements seriously--in other words, "Special: member of the Order of Knights Arcane" needs to be RPed out.
As to the others, does Silver Pyromancer lose any casting levels? Is it for Wizards OR Clerics, or does it require you to multiclass in both Wizard AND Cleric? If a single-classed Wizard or Cleric can add the Paladin's spell list without losing a level of spellcasting, this could be fairly problematic, since the Paladin gets several powerful spells at lower levels than usual to compensate for the fact that they only get up to 4 levels of spells.
The Magebred animals seem clearly unfair as Druid companions since you have to wait until the same level to get a non-Magebred Brown Bear.
Other than that, I can't see any problems from the short lists, but like Sharn, I wish I knew the full text on these. I mean, if something was broken( Random example: if the Argentum affiliation gave you a 25% discount on all magic items for 5 and above affiliation points and you get +5 affiliation for killing a Shifter, this wouldn't be very fair)
As to the others, does Silver Pyromancer lose any casting levels? Is it for Wizards OR Clerics, or does it require you to multiclass in both Wizard AND Cleric? If a single-classed Wizard or Cleric can add the Paladin's spell list without losing a level of spellcasting, this could be fairly problematic, since the Paladin gets several powerful spells at lower levels than usual to compensate for the fact that they only get up to 4 levels of spells.
The Magebred animals seem clearly unfair as Druid companions since you have to wait until the same level to get a non-Magebred Brown Bear.
Other than that, I can't see any problems from the short lists, but like Sharn, I wish I knew the full text on these. I mean, if something was broken( Random example: if the Argentum affiliation gave you a 25% discount on all magic items for 5 and above affiliation points and you get +5 affiliation for killing a Shifter, this wouldn't be very fair)
Bront
The man with the probe
I'll coment on these once the books arive
I think I've seen the Silver Pyromancer, and yes, I believe it requires some multi-classing, and some RP requirement.
And yes, I believe we intend to take any RP requirements very seriously. However, this is not intended to say "You can't be this because we say so", but "You actualy have to go through the RP motions". If you need an adventure to seek out the Knights Arcane, then find a DM to do it, preferably before you level, and remember you're welcome to hold off on leveling if you have the XP.
I think I've seen the Silver Pyromancer, and yes, I believe it requires some multi-classing, and some RP requirement.
And yes, I believe we intend to take any RP requirements very seriously. However, this is not intended to say "You can't be this because we say so", but "You actualy have to go through the RP motions". If you need an adventure to seek out the Knights Arcane, then find a DM to do it, preferably before you level, and remember you're welcome to hold off on leveling if you have the XP.
Rystil Arden
First Post
I'm in complete agreement. We're not going to be saying 'No'. We're going to be promoting cool adventures to get in tune with Eberron. It just means you can't walk in and say:
"Oh, I'm in this order now. Give me the new powers!"
"Do you even know what the duties of the order are?"
"The wha? I don't care. I just wrote on my sheet I'm in it because I want Brilliant Energy weapons. Duh!"
---
Just about the only situation I can see where we would be saying 'No' thanks to RP requirements is if the character has made a choice to do something crazy and extreme "I have slain the QUEEN OF AUNDAIR! Bwahahahaha! Warmongering bitch! Time to collect my 100,000 gold from Karrnath. Oh, before I go, can I join the Order of the Knights Arcane?"
stonegod
Spawn of Khyber/LEB Judge
Pyromancer: You have to have 1 level of cleric (or 4 levels of paladin) and 5 levels of wizards (or 6 of sorcerer). It has 5 levels, all but one gain arcane spell level. BTW: If you want to see an example build, you can see the one I did for drogthery's game here.Rystil Arden said:
And I am all for RP reqs.
Rystil Arden
First Post
It loses out on the first level for casting. :nod: That's exactly the vision I had in my mind for what it would look like if it was balanced, despite having never seen it. Go go Five Nations designers!
Rystil Arden said:
I should note that my tabletop DM had a problem with the pyromancer ability, which takes a turn attempt to do d6 damage per effective cleric level for purposes of turning undead + arcane caster level (this ends up being d6/character level most of the time, because wizard 5/cleric 1 is the simplest path into Silver Pyromancer, and a flametouched iron holy symbol isn't too expensive at that point) to undead.
I disagreed, but between that ability and a full cleric of the Flame with anti-undead Exalted feats, we were cutting through undead like a hot knife through butter.
Rystil Arden
First Post
Wait, does the PrC give turning levels and get double-counted?
Similar Threads
