Flatter Ability Score Bonuses

[Steely_Dan]

Its funny to see people reference 18/00 strength

I don't see how it's funny, back in 1992, my brother was rolling up an Elf Fighter, he rolled an 18 and assigned it to Str, then he rolled 00 percentile (never forget that day), right in front of me; the weird thing was the character had a 12 Con.

As for no one playing a Fighter without an 18 Str: Sturm, Tanis etc.

 

[Shadeydm]

I don't see how it's funny, back in 1992, my brother was rolling up an Elf Fighter, he rolled an 18 and assigned it to Str, then he rolled 00 percentile (never forget that day), right in front of me; the weird thing was the character had a 12 Con.

As for no one playing a Fighter without an 18 Str: Sturm, Tanis etc.

Congrats to him he beat the odds but what is so terrible about this? Did it ruin the fun for you that he did some extra damage. I would have been psyched to have him on my team. The odd thing is though for some reason i didn't think elves could have the /00 but i'm probably confused its been a while.

 

[Steely_Dan]

1) Congrats to him he beat the odds but what is so terrible about this?

2) The odd thing is though for some reason i didn't think elves could have the /00 but i'm probably confused its been a while.

1) Nothing, I loved it as his DM and brother.

2) I think that was 1st Ed.

 

[Stalker0]

I must disagree.

The net-gain from +1 to +2 is the same as from +3 to +4.

However, the gain of a +1 to your core stat is often much greater than a +2 in a non-core stat.

Basically, the reason people often seem to "mandate" 18's in their primary stat is because there is no mechanical reason to do otherwise. Even though it costs them a lot of points, those extra +1 or +2s in the core stat are seen as useful enough to warrant it. Part of this is mechanics, part of this is that the team nature of Dnd was always favored specialization into your niche.

To fix that, you have a couple of options:

1) Make the noncore stats more attractive with mechanics.
2) Make noncore stats cheaper (or core stats more expensive), so that the opportunity cost favors getting noncore stats.

As an example, if for the cost of an 18 in strength I could instead buy 2 14's in noncore stats....I'm probably going with the 18. However, if for the cost of an 18 I can get 4 14's in noncore stats....that's a bit more enticing.

Ultimately correcting number 1 is the more elegant solution but it is much more difficult. Number 2 lets you focus right at the heart of the issue and adjust without involving a lot of game mechanics.

 

[triqui]

You don't need to flatter the score bonus, you need to flatter the score, imho.

The problem is not the fighter has 18 str and +4 to attack. The problem is he has 18 str +2 racial bonus, and he gets free pumps every few levels, and depending the edition, he gets a free +6 enhancing belt and +4 from barbarian rage.

A character with 18 str and +4 bonus works just fine. A character with STR 30 and +10 bonus does not.

 

[triqui]

Its funny to see people reference 18/00 strength I played AD&D for years and the only time there was ever an 18/00 at the table was if someone has gauntlets of ogre power. Even if you had an 18 the odds of rolling 100 to go along with it were extremely low. I seem to recall that something like half the percentile range for strength was just the next bonus increment after 18 but with my 1E books packed away in the basement can't say for sure. i'm not advocating they bring it back it was fun for its time but I agree with the idea point buy is the best system for character creation.

My brother had a Kagonesti Elf that had 18/00 (legit, roll in front of me) and I got a 18/00 which was, actually, got in game (I got a STR bonus from a Deck of Many Things with a STR 17 fighter, got 18, rolled the first d10, got a 0, rolled the second one, got a 0 and started to dance )

Later, in Skills and Powers it was damn easy to get a 00, assuming you got a 18 in the first place. You could roll with a +50 if you took 16 in Stamina.

 

[Steely_Dan]

you need to flatter the score

You one fine looking Str, baby.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

I agree, the scores need to be flattened. Especially if they are reducing or eliminating bonuses for gaining levels like they've said. If the difference in bonus to hit is 3 between a 20th level fighter and a 20th level wizard but you can get a difference of 5 from just stat alone....well, then the wizard with a 20 str can make a better fighter than the fighter with a 12 str.

It makes stats TOO important. It also means that if monsters at 1st level are designed to be able to be hit by 1st level wizards with no stat modifier then they are hit nearly 100% of the time by a 20 str fighter with say a +1 to hit from his class. That's a HUGE encouragement to put the 20 into str.

On the other hand, if the difference between a 10 str and a 20 strength is +1 or +2...well, you can probably get away with not putting it in there. Especially if there are other encouragements to put points elsewhere.