Flatter Ability Score Bonuses

[satori01]

I would like to see an ability point spread like this:

18-20= +2
17-13 =+1
12-7= 0
6-4= -1
3= -2


This way a a fighter with 20 Str is not so much mathematically better than another fighter with say 14 or 16 Str.


You make them feel different in the terms of the ability to do things.
We know ability score checks are going to be skills, to allow for a direct and more "my character does x" play style.

By simply adding ones ability score to the check roll ,and accounting for this in DC scores , a character with 18 Str would find a DC 22 climb up a rope in gym class to be a breeze, but an average range person with 12 Str would experience a climb that is not so assured or easy.


By using a method like this, a character with 18 Str will still 'feel' strong, and play strong, but not make those that do not have max Str feel as "No Need to Apply" signs are held up by their gaming group if the person wants to play a halfling fighter, or build something in a more varied less min/max way.

 

[BobTheNob]

What method for stat determination did you envisage under this idea? Random or allocation?

 

[Lanefan]

What method for stat determination did you envisage under this idea? Random or allocation?

Does it matter?

I like the idea, though as 10.5 is the average of 3d6 I'd tweak the numbers just slightly:

2 or less -3
3-4 -2
5-7 -1
8-13 0
14-16 +1
17-18 +2
19 or higher +3

with the caveat that one could easily mess with the numbers below 2 or above 19 should anyone ever be so (un)lucky as to get that far.

Something like this would be a nice start to numbers-bloat reduction.

Lanefan

 

[am181d]

I know a lot of players feel like their character HAS to have an 18 or even a 20 in their key stat. I don't think that's ever actually been the case, but I'd be OK with a system that makes it harder to get higher scores. (Say, by changing the rules so class/race bonuses don't race your ability above 16...)

 

[Minigiant]

The problem with flatter ability mods is not making the maximum value weaker, it is making the non-maximum values acceptable.

3E and 4E tried to do this by making secondary abilities important and thus making getting that high stat too expensive or less important.

4E screwed up by making accuracy way too low and making a high attack ability extremely more desirable than 90% of whatever a secondary stat could do. So internally, you wanted that 18+ unless role play urges were strong enough to pull you way.

3E screwed up by either making secondaries too important or not important at all. This caused ability dependancies of both sides of the spectrum.

Instead, I suggest the (Ability-10)/2 3E and 4E method but starting with a higher base attack/skill/save bonus.

Instead of a fighter starting with Str+1 melee attack, they start with Str+5 melee attack.

The higher starting point would psychologically trick into seeing bigger numbers up front and it would raise accuracy to make us experince less misses.

If your PC has a +8 attack against a 13 AC studded leather armor, they'd a low number to hit and rarely feel the wish to get higher stats.

Something I noticed with higher level 3.5 noncaster weapon PCs. Once their BAB passes +7 or so, their misses are few. As long as their STR or DEX was higher than the feat prerequisites fr their build, they didn't care. Not like you missed. Ability mods were ignored once you had max ranks in a class skill or +8 BAB/Caster level.

 

[BobTheNob]

Does it matter?

Yes it does matter. With allocation, players tend to stretch for the next "tier" (i.e. they will pay the higher cost to get that extra +1). If you go with the proposed idea in combination with allocated stats, you will end up with a bunch of characters all with 13 in their stats (for the +1), and an occasional 18(for the +2).

"Player 1" : Here, look at my fighters stats!
Str:18
Dex:13
Con:13
Int:7
Wis:13
Chr:7

"Player 2" : Here, look at my cleric

Str:13
Dex:7
Con:13
Int:7
Wis:18
Chr:13

Its kinda yawn.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I can't pretend to hate the idea. As with many good ideas it's "not very D&D," which in the current atmosphere is sadly a major problem.

With only a spread of 5, you might as well do away with the hoary 3-18 stats and just have a descriptive:

Poor
Indifferent
Able
Exceptional
Superior

Or whatever. Lots of games do that.

 

[tlantl]

I always kind of liked the idea that the ability scores had class abilities baked in to them. In AD&D the fighter was the only one who got the most from having a high strength. If a cleric had an 18 in his strength it was good for a high bonus to hit and damage but a fighter with the same 18 got a bigger boost because of his percentile roll.

The fighter's hit points were similarly affected since only fighters could gain the full benefit of the highest con scores.

Each ability score had a major effect on a particular class, not just a + bonus to some attack or defense or a measly spell bonus. They also had a real impact on saving throws and how the character withstood certain affects and conditions. Believe me a 4 point armor adjustment made a big difference for a long time. Especially since it was the only bonus you had until you found a magic shield or suit of armor.

I don't think reducing the bonuses for ability scores is as necessary to control numbers bloat as not adding a dozen different bonuses to the same thing. Giving a 5% increase to hit over the course of 30 levels is a problem. Making that constant increase manageable by increasing armor classes to match is foolish and takes away some of the fun of getting better with your weapons. I don't like going into combat with a guy that is around my level and needing to roll a 15 or 16 to hit him like I did against a goblin at 1st level.

What's worse it takes away from the suspension of disbelief when I run into a goblin and can automatically hit it because it's armor no longer affords the same protection it did when I was a lower level.

 

[Steely_Dan]

As with many good ideas it's "not very D&D,"

Seems quite pre-3rd Ed D&D to me.

 

[Viking Bastard]

I'd rather go for higher Ability mods (and flatten everything else).

As in Modifier = Ability Score - 10.

Have a 15 in Strength? That's your Passive Score. Your "Dynamic" Score would then be d20 + 5.