Fortune Cards: and randomized collectible cards come to D&D

[Vyvyan Basterd]

What does this have to do with the power increase cycle.

My point is that this is for Encounters only. The Encounters program doesn't need the power level of monsters to increase in the supplements to succeed at its goal. It can uses the same creatures the rest of us do, but increase the level of the encounters thrown at the party. It does not necessarily follow that all content will creep up further in power because of the cards.

3. this isnt any kind of tactical option, just another list of bonus to pick from and pile onto the character. It has nothing to do with tactics. Tactics is drawing the enemy into a small space to bottleneck them, surrounding them, pinning them into a corner, etc.

Fortune cards offer nothing in the way of tactics, only a new list of bonuses. Tactics come from player decision and not some CCG added to an RPG.

And the cards can facilitate these tactics. I never said they were tactics. I carefully said they provide additional tactical options. They provide additional actions beyond the economy of actions built into the game.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

The difference here is D&D isn't primarily a player competitive game. If player A brings in a ripped deck of cards, he may shine, but the group benefits. The kitchen table' danger is the DM reacts by increasing the encounter difficulty to account for the extra benefit and thus makes those without the benefit less useful/more at risk.

I wasn't the one calling the guy with the 20 rare deck a jerk. I was merely countering an argument made that Magic players would never be called a jerk for making the best deck.

Edit: And D&D might not be mainly competitive among players, but I can assure you that the non-optimizers in my 3E campaigns did not enjoy the fact that the optimizers could neutralize any threat to the party without their help.

 

[shadzar]

My point is that this is for Encounters only. The Encounters program doesn't need the power level of monsters to increase in the supplements to succeed at its goal. It can uses the same creatures the rest of us do, but increase the level of the encounters thrown at the party. It does not necessarily follow that all content will creep up further in power because of the cards.

Event material has quite often become things used for standard game play. While it may initially intend to only appear there, the power curve can shift within the rest of the game easily.

Assume your Encounter writer also writes other parts of the game, and get, as often it happens, into the practice of upping the ante on the monster power, then it may slip in thought when doing it outside of the Encounter platform. This might not be noticed by other people during the process as it might be small at first, like most power creep is, then get bigger and go unnoticed until it is compared with the initial designed mosnters to see that there is a disparity between them that occured slowly without notice.

And the cards can facilitate these tactics. I never said they were tactics. I carefully said they provide additional tactical options. They provide additional actions beyond the economy of actions built into the game.

Reroll a save, isn't really anything tactical. SOME may offer some tactic, but shouldn't that very thing already be in the rules, such as jump in front of a friend to take the hit for them?

Why is this unable to be done without a card? imply because nothing in the rules suggest how to handle it? (Page 42) Or because a player wouldn't think it possible, since there is nothing in previous lists of "options" that tells them they can, or even inspires them to try?

They are very very weak, and the game provides the tactical options, you just have to enlist them before they can be used. Enlist, not compile into a list.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Event material has quite often become things used for standard game play. While it may initially intend to only appear there, the power curve can shift within the rest of the game easily. Assume your Encounter writer also writes other parts of the game, and get, as often it happens, into the practice of upping the ante on the monster power, then it may slip in thought when doing it outside of the Encounter platform.

Encounter difficulty can increase without monster power increasing. Examples like the two solo dragon encounter illustrate this. Incorporating this into published modules will be readily apparent when the level of the encounter is more than four levels above the party. I think the bas assumption is faulty.

They are very very weak, and the game provides the tactical options, you just have to enlist them before they can be used. Enlist, not compile into a list.

I won't argue with you here. I'd rather see a stronger concept behind these cards. A random pack of cards similar to the TORG drama deck woud be more to my liking. Although I could see a variant use of these cards that would make them kind of like that deck (the drama deck had both mechanical bonuses and plot manipulation if I remember correctly).

Idea: The DM buys the cards and forms a single deck of however many cards he wishes. On a specific trigger(s) (spending an action point, rolling a critical success, rolling a critical failure), a card could be turned up for use by the triggering side of the encounter (or maybe the opposition if the trigger is a critical failure.

I still don't see evidence that these cards will ramp up the power curve all on their own and become a necessity. I will concede that it is possible, but I don't feel it is likely.

 

[Argyle King]

From the few cards I've seen in previews, I think I can see the cards throwing off the power curve when involved in a game. While I'd like to believe most groups would view it as bad form, some of the common cards could be spammed over and over again (by making a deck with only those cards) to great effect.

Though, truth be told, it wouldn't be a new thing for me to see 4E PCs laugh in the face of the monsters, so I'm not sure if I'd really notice the effect of the cards too much.

Right now, I guess I'm mostly confused about what the point in making the MM3 and beyond monsters tougher was if some of the Essentials options and things such as the cards were going to to ramp the PCs up to a place which was analogous to their previous position ahead of the foes.

 

[DMZ2112]

Meh, as I said, if you play with players who would take the time and money to beat D&D, you have larger issues than these cards.

I can't argue with this. If you outlaw character optimization at your table as a matter of course, these cards are not a concern for you.

 

[pukunui]

Just reading the blog on the [url="http://critical-hits.com/2011/01/27/ddxp-2011-new-product-seminar/]DDXP new products seminar[/url] over at Critical Hits. Looks like cards are the future of D&D.

Along with the Fortune Cards, there will also be two more decks of cards:

Despair Cards: "Divided into 3 aspects: madness, fear, and apathy. Adds flavor and atmosphere to game, gives cards to players and they affect their players. “Jealous” “Craven” “Fearless” are examples. Used for flavor and for mechanical benefits. If they overcome those effects they become more resistant to gloom and despair present in the Shadowfell."

And the Deck of Many Things (included in the Gardmore Abbey box set):
"Madness at Gardmore Abbey Boxed Set – September
Backstory: recovering an evil artifact that turns out to be the Deck of Many Things, which lures monsters in and warps the surroundings and dungeons in a way that also makes them replayable as well as interesting, includes complete card set for the Deck. (yessssss) ... Showing Deck of Many Things. It looks awesome and I want it. Trevor Kidd asks who here has been in a campaign with the Deck in play, and also who saw someone die or get imprisoned or something else nuts. Everyone who raised their hand said yes. Now everyone is reminiscing a bit about the horrible cards. I love this place."

 

[DMZ2112]

Decks of cards have always been awesome player aids. I have fond memories of the Tarokka deck from the old Ravenloft boxed set.

There's already a Deck of Many Things on the market, of course.

I don't know how I feel about a deck of cards that dictates roleplay. But I suppose that fundamentally it is no different than fear and horror checks followed by a roll on an arbitrary table of afflictions.

 

[Argyle King]

Just reading the blog on the DDXP new products seminar over at Critical Hits. Looks like cards are the future of D&D.

Along with the Fortune Cards, there will also be two more decks of cards:

Despair Cards: "Divided into 3 aspects: madness, fear, and apathy. Adds flavor and atmosphere to game, gives cards to players and they affect their players. “Jealous” “Craven” “Fearless” are examples. Used for flavor and for mechanical benefits. If they overcome those effects they become more resistant to gloom and despair present in the Shadowfell."

There's a type of card for telling my character how to feel about a situation?

 

[francisca]

Per Mike Mearls from an interview

Fortune Cards

MM: "Similar to Gamma World cards, we are going to be doing fortune cards for D&D. They are collectible cards that give the same kind of random dramatic element to the game. The player can alter the action a little bit by using a random benefit. As a whole they make the game a little more unpredictable and makes things work out in an interesting new way."

I dunno know about the rest of you guys, but the jokers I play with are already random, dramatic elements. I dunno how much more we could withstand.