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Gamer Grrls
- Thread starter Chaos_Kitten
- Start date
Festy_Dog
First Post
Snoweel said:
I think it's restricted to the Sydney region, I live in SE Queensland and I feel no great urge to wind anyone up.
I haven't had the honour of a female gamer at the table, but my experience with D&D is relatively brief comparatively. From most opinions though the input of a serious female gamer would be a good thing for a game, and I look forward to it.
Mark
CreativeMountainGames.com
CK - Personally, if I were in your place, I'd be looking for another group with which to game. However, it sounds as if you'd like to see if your current group can be reined in or enlightened. To that end I'd offer the following advice.
Retire your character and start a new one that is male. Once you have removed the chance for a player to couch his rude bahavior as part of his character you'll have a better chance to confront the bahavior and squelch it.
Firstly, this allows you to determine which of the players understand that the displayed behavior is rude. The ones that do understand will not be making sexist comments out of character and will also have to confront the persistent players who continue to act rudely out of character.
Secondly, this helps you sort out who is actually cognizant of the problem. Many folks who have learned unsavory bahavior over time are not aware on a conscious level that it is wrong. There are a myriad of ways that they will rationalize it and it is far easier to confront when it is put under a spotlight with no easy exits.
If it hasn't already been handled by the DM then I would have to guess that the DM is either one of the rude people or one of the people that is unaware of how rude the bahavior is and how it is bothering you. In this case you will need to build a stronger case. To do this, when a comment is made that fits the parameters you have outlined, call a halt to the game and make the person who made the comment repeat the comment that you find offensive. Highlight the comment. Repeat it yourself and ask the person to confirm that this is what they have said. Disect the comment to remove its tongue in cheek vernacular then ask each person at the table, beginning with the DM, if you are understanding what is being said, if they are understanding what is being said, and if it is considered acceptable behavior at the table to make such comments. Make it clear that you find it offensive.
This is a way to untrain someone from maing offhand comments and to clearly delineate between what is offensive and what is not. It is difficult to do in a pragmatic way and has to be done quite clinically. If it is done emotionally it will lose a great deal of its impact and unlikely to do more than agitate. If done in anger it is likely to reflect as poorly on yourself as on the actual offender.
As said above, I wouldn't waste my time and I would find another group. However, if you think it is worth the struggle, the above is my suggestion on how to confront the situation and affect some change. Best of luck with whatever you decide to do.
Retire your character and start a new one that is male. Once you have removed the chance for a player to couch his rude bahavior as part of his character you'll have a better chance to confront the bahavior and squelch it.
Firstly, this allows you to determine which of the players understand that the displayed behavior is rude. The ones that do understand will not be making sexist comments out of character and will also have to confront the persistent players who continue to act rudely out of character.
Secondly, this helps you sort out who is actually cognizant of the problem. Many folks who have learned unsavory bahavior over time are not aware on a conscious level that it is wrong. There are a myriad of ways that they will rationalize it and it is far easier to confront when it is put under a spotlight with no easy exits.
If it hasn't already been handled by the DM then I would have to guess that the DM is either one of the rude people or one of the people that is unaware of how rude the bahavior is and how it is bothering you. In this case you will need to build a stronger case. To do this, when a comment is made that fits the parameters you have outlined, call a halt to the game and make the person who made the comment repeat the comment that you find offensive. Highlight the comment. Repeat it yourself and ask the person to confirm that this is what they have said. Disect the comment to remove its tongue in cheek vernacular then ask each person at the table, beginning with the DM, if you are understanding what is being said, if they are understanding what is being said, and if it is considered acceptable behavior at the table to make such comments. Make it clear that you find it offensive.
This is a way to untrain someone from maing offhand comments and to clearly delineate between what is offensive and what is not. It is difficult to do in a pragmatic way and has to be done quite clinically. If it is done emotionally it will lose a great deal of its impact and unlikely to do more than agitate. If done in anger it is likely to reflect as poorly on yourself as on the actual offender.
As said above, I wouldn't waste my time and I would find another group. However, if you think it is worth the struggle, the above is my suggestion on how to confront the situation and affect some change. Best of luck with whatever you decide to do.
dvvega
Explorer
Why do we put up with the behaviour?
It's not often but just enough to make my wife a little "shy" at the gaming table. I've talked to her about bringing it "out in the open" but she doesn't want to rock the boat. I'm winding down the campaign anyway so she just wants it to run its course and then she and I will probably get another group together.
Additionally most of the people we play with we've known for about 10 years. People are more forgiving with friends than you would with someone you just met. For example if we got a new member for the group who answered an ad, and they came in and pulled that stunt, it would be a little different.
Once the game is over, the people are still there.
I don't 100% agree with the commentary regarding Australians and the way they do things, however I've got two cultures in my blood so I can't honestly say I'm 100% Australian (was born here, however that is not what I class being of any one country). But yes there is a culture of people putting up with ridicule and put downs rather than reacting. Because reacting is like saying "you hurt me" - its showing weakness in the Australian way of things.
It's not often but just enough to make my wife a little "shy" at the gaming table. I've talked to her about bringing it "out in the open" but she doesn't want to rock the boat. I'm winding down the campaign anyway so she just wants it to run its course and then she and I will probably get another group together.
Additionally most of the people we play with we've known for about 10 years. People are more forgiving with friends than you would with someone you just met. For example if we got a new member for the group who answered an ad, and they came in and pulled that stunt, it would be a little different.
Once the game is over, the people are still there.
I don't 100% agree with the commentary regarding Australians and the way they do things, however I've got two cultures in my blood so I can't honestly say I'm 100% Australian (was born here, however that is not what I class being of any one country). But yes there is a culture of people putting up with ridicule and put downs rather than reacting. Because reacting is like saying "you hurt me" - its showing weakness in the Australian way of things.
Queen_Dopplepopolis
First Post
I play in a group that has an 3 women and 4 men and, every now and then, when people call to cancle, we're stuck with equal numbers or-- *gasp* more girls than guys...
I've not had a lot of experience gaming... approx. 3.5 years... but, in my 3.5 years, I have found that women can game just as well as men-- they just have to be given the chance and not looked at like super sexed anythings-- though, I have, once, played that character and had a TON of fun with it ("gee, I've never seen the inside of a space ship before" *giggle giggle giggle*... "and," *clang* "now that you're no longer conscious, I think I'll steal it... tee hee")... it has it's advantages.
But, in the end, I think it's important to be fair and say that, if any girl had been playing since she was 7, she'd be just as capable as anyone else-- male or female.
I've not had a lot of experience gaming... approx. 3.5 years... but, in my 3.5 years, I have found that women can game just as well as men-- they just have to be given the chance and not looked at like super sexed anythings-- though, I have, once, played that character and had a TON of fun with it ("gee, I've never seen the inside of a space ship before" *giggle giggle giggle*... "and," *clang* "now that you're no longer conscious, I think I'll steal it... tee hee")... it has it's advantages.
But, in the end, I think it's important to be fair and say that, if any girl had been playing since she was 7, she'd be just as capable as anyone else-- male or female.
Aries_Omega
Explorer
It sounds to me like you have an immature group who have never seen women before....except in print. Unfortunately this mentality is the "Old Guard" of gaming since back in the day gaming was just about 100% male with exceptions such as the token g/f who had their character made for them. It sounds like you are with the parody version of gamers which is based on fact of how some gamers are.
My rule is you play the gender you are until I deem otherwise. This is because I have had a male player play a female character and make EVERYONE uncomfortable. Sex has a place in the world but not in such way that everyone at the table is giving looks to the player over what he is asking to do.
I have more problems with male players then female. In fact when I am looking for hired guns for a game I give military (since I was in the Army) and women first dibbs over everyone else. I allow ALL players to play any concept of character as long as they meet this guideline.
My rule is you play the gender you are until I deem otherwise. This is because I have had a male player play a female character and make EVERYONE uncomfortable. Sex has a place in the world but not in such way that everyone at the table is giving looks to the player over what he is asking to do.
I have more problems with male players then female. In fact when I am looking for hired guns for a game I give military (since I was in the Army) and women first dibbs over everyone else. I allow ALL players to play any concept of character as long as they meet this guideline.
Poster Bard
First Post
Gamer Girl
(With a nod to Avril Lavigne)
There was a group, they played the game
Could they be more obnoxious?
Wanted to join, cause she liked to play
What more could she say?
They let her in, she brought her dice
At first they all acted really nice
The comments began, testosterone rose
Imagined her wearing constrictive clothes
She was a gamer girl
Joining a macho world
It wasn't an easy game to play
She had to bite her tongue
With each sexist song they sung
They needed to learn a better way
Two months from now, and still on the scene
Min/maxing, and she's a combat queen
With each snide aside, to her it's all greek
Still has to hear it most every week
Options seem few, stuck with the crew
She dreamt of a different point of view
Doing her part, just playing her role
Every game cost a bit of her soul
She was a gamer girl
Joining a macho world
It wasn't an easy game to play
She longed for a better game
One not quite half as lame
She wanted a beast that she could slay
Sorry guys, but you missed out
On what the game is all about
Opportunities missed, too
Lessons not learned, chances blew
Too bad that you couldn't see
See the game that it could be
Open mouths don't have to feed
Open hearts don't have to bleed
There was a group, they played the game
Too bad that they missed the obvious
They didn't play nice, and didn't think twice
So she packed up her books and dice
Now she's a gamer girl
Running her homebrew world
She found a group who is in the know
The fighting now all in-game
DMing to great acclaim
She puts on quite a splendid show
Now she's a gamer girl
Running her homebrew world
She found a group who is in the know
Her plotlines have depth and grace
Her new players all embrace
A campaign that's sure to grow and grow
(With a nod to Avril Lavigne)
There was a group, they played the game
Could they be more obnoxious?
Wanted to join, cause she liked to play
What more could she say?
They let her in, she brought her dice
At first they all acted really nice
The comments began, testosterone rose
Imagined her wearing constrictive clothes
She was a gamer girl
Joining a macho world
It wasn't an easy game to play
She had to bite her tongue
With each sexist song they sung
They needed to learn a better way
Two months from now, and still on the scene
Min/maxing, and she's a combat queen
With each snide aside, to her it's all greek
Still has to hear it most every week
Options seem few, stuck with the crew
She dreamt of a different point of view
Doing her part, just playing her role
Every game cost a bit of her soul
She was a gamer girl
Joining a macho world
It wasn't an easy game to play
She longed for a better game
One not quite half as lame
She wanted a beast that she could slay
Sorry guys, but you missed out
On what the game is all about
Opportunities missed, too
Lessons not learned, chances blew
Too bad that you couldn't see
See the game that it could be
Open mouths don't have to feed
Open hearts don't have to bleed
There was a group, they played the game
Too bad that they missed the obvious
They didn't play nice, and didn't think twice
So she packed up her books and dice
Now she's a gamer girl
Running her homebrew world
She found a group who is in the know
The fighting now all in-game
DMing to great acclaim
She puts on quite a splendid show
Now she's a gamer girl
Running her homebrew world
She found a group who is in the know
Her plotlines have depth and grace
Her new players all embrace
A campaign that's sure to grow and grow
Djeta Thernadier
First Post
Welcome to posting.
Well, as a female who games, I can say that my honest thought is that you have run into some really immature, silly boys. I don't know how old you are, but I know when I was about 19, I had a group of guys I wanted to game with. They wanted NOTHING to do with having a girl game with them. Sat in on a few of their sessions. EVERY woman in the game they mentioned was a chain mail bikini wearing warrior babe.
Fast forward 5 years....met another group of people. They had a bunch of guys and one of the guys wanna-be goth girlfriends (now his wanna-be goth wife). She made it damn clear she did not want another female player and the guys obeyed her. It was pretty pathetic. Besides that , they played diceless Mage. Now I know better.... Every woman in their game was a scantily clad, manically depressed vampire woman.
Fast forward to 2.5 years ago. I met my now live in boyfriend Chris (MojoGM on Enworld) and started playing with him and his groups. There are two groups. Been with one of them for almost 2 years, and the other for almost 1.5. I'm almost 28.
Neither of these groups treat me any differently than they'd treat the guy players. One group has another female player and she always plays badass tough girls (a dwarven fighter and a paladin). My characters (half elf bard/sorcerer , elven druid, and gnome illusionist) are all interesting and fun to play. No one describes women as chain mail wearing trollops. Yay! In fact, one of my female characters is a happily childlike gnome. Not quite your average fantasy poster chick, eh? And my other two characters are always fully clothed, thank you very much. In fact, my characters are probably more modest than the real me.
Don't worry about these guys. You will find a group of serious players who want you to join them. The best way to deal with it is to first try and discuss it with them. And then, if they are not mature enough to understand that it bothers you and why it bothers you, the next best thing to do is move on to another group who appreciates you.
~Sheri
Well, as a female who games, I can say that my honest thought is that you have run into some really immature, silly boys. I don't know how old you are, but I know when I was about 19, I had a group of guys I wanted to game with. They wanted NOTHING to do with having a girl game with them. Sat in on a few of their sessions. EVERY woman in the game they mentioned was a chain mail bikini wearing warrior babe.
Fast forward 5 years....met another group of people. They had a bunch of guys and one of the guys wanna-be goth girlfriends (now his wanna-be goth wife). She made it damn clear she did not want another female player and the guys obeyed her. It was pretty pathetic. Besides that , they played diceless Mage. Now I know better....
Every woman in their game was a scantily clad, manically depressed vampire woman.Fast forward to 2.5 years ago. I met my now live in boyfriend Chris (MojoGM on Enworld) and started playing with him and his groups. There are two groups. Been with one of them for almost 2 years, and the other for almost 1.5. I'm almost 28.
Neither of these groups treat me any differently than they'd treat the guy players. One group has another female player and she always plays badass tough girls (a dwarven fighter and a paladin). My characters (half elf bard/sorcerer , elven druid, and gnome illusionist) are all interesting and fun to play. No one describes women as chain mail wearing trollops. Yay! In fact, one of my female characters is a happily childlike gnome. Not quite your average fantasy poster chick, eh? And my other two characters are always fully clothed, thank you very much. In fact, my characters are probably more modest than the real me.
Don't worry about these guys. You will find a group of serious players who want you to join them. The best way to deal with it is to first try and discuss it with them. And then, if they are not mature enough to understand that it bothers you and why it bothers you, the next best thing to do is move on to another group who appreciates you.
~Sheri
Djeta Thernadier
First Post
Poster Bard said:Gamer Girl
(With a nod to Avril Lavigne)
Well done, Poster Bard.
