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GenCon Indy 2007, let's shake the male/female ratios--or not, they seem fine here ;)

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Captain Howdy

Explorer
They should just institute the old rule that my friends and I used at parties: If you are male, and want to get in, you need to have at least one female with you.

Nobody likes a sausage fest!

Ok I'm kidding, but seriously, I am planning on going next year for the first time, and I am bringing my girlfriend with me.
 

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reveal

Adventurer
Menexenus said:
Wow, it seems to me that the OP is taking a whole lot of crap for making a perfectly reasonable suggestion.

Some people sure are testy around here...
So says the guy with a comic strip that could easily be viewed as sexist. ;)
 

Buttercup

Princess of Florin
Sephera said:
Or maybe I should just give up and realize that since I don't understand gaming, I don't belong here and I should stop trying to find a way to let other women, like myself, realize the fun in gaming. This morning I was all excited about going to GenCon, now I'm not so sure. I certainly don't feel any kind of warm fuzzies here.

I'm honestly not sure why this thread has upset you.

Possibly you are perceiving a systemic unwelcoming attitude toward women that I don't? Only twice in this century have I had men act like jerks because I was a woman who games. Neither of these times meant much of anything, since there are plenty of people, male and female, for me to play with and talk about the hobby with.

I believe you said that you haven't yet been to GenCon. Perhaps you should go next year, and see what it's like, before you assume that you won't be welcome, and spend all this energy in advance, trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist? Just a thought.

Finally, let me just say that the EN World/ Circvs Maximvs folks are among the finest people I've ever met. I've made some really good friends by hanging out with them at GenCon. :)
 

Buttercup said:
I'm honestly not sure why this thread has upset you.

Perhaps it was people taking the OPs comments personally? Let me provide some quotes that sound like folks were taking it personally and attacking back. (Even if it wasn't their intent. I ascribe no motive here.)


Sorry you didn't like my shirt. Wait, no I'm not.

...if you hadn't sneered at me in your original post....

Why do you hate men?

Why do you hate the men of EN World especially?
 

Sephera

First Post
New Day, Fresh start

Deep breath in, deep breath out.

I am not trying to create a division between male and female or any kind of exclusivity. My post that caused quite a few objections was the start of a brain storming. In brainstorming, you throw out any idea you have, whether it's a good one or not. Then you eliminate the bad ones and work on the good ones. Having looked in from the outside for years and finally being confident enough (and being given the opportunity - Thank you Thunderfoot!) to try fitting in, I just thought it would be a nice idea to try to reach other women that may have predecided they don't want to be a part of D&D or other games.

Ok, again starting over, putting my flame retardant "RPG: Role Playing Gal" shirt on. (Don't really have it, but I intend to spend the next year finding it and other similar shirts.)

What if rather than have women only spaces, we have a women in gaming space? I think this past year there was a special room for minis, a room for board games, a room for card type games, room for anime, etc. this past year. How are those not segregating? A women in gaming space could use games designed by females or games run by female DMs or something like that. Women AND men would be welcome in the space, but it might also give women a space where they feel like a little less intimidated. I would think walking around GenCon and noticing the small number of women at the tables with me wouldn't encourage me to sit down and give it a try, but that's just me.

Who knows, an area such as this, maybe not specifically marketed as being a women in gaming space, might even encourage men that specifically don't want women in their game to see that women can be one of the group without sticking out like a sore thumb.

I wish I had been able to go to GenCon this year, but doctor ordered bedrest (where I'm not supposed to do more than 10 minutes of activity per hour and I spend the rest of the time laying on my side) doesn't exactly make that possible. I do still really want to go and I'm looking forward to bringing my children who at the time of GenCon will be 12 year old daughter, 8 year old son, 4 year old daughter, and 10-11 month old son. And Torin can come, too.

Again, relating to my own personal experiences. As I found places that welcomed women in gaming, I shared them with the other women I normally game with. (Well, I actually did forget one, but I intend to rectify that ASAP.) But, while I was talking about having a niche to fit in and declare our competency as gamers that happen to be female, they were just as excited as I was. I think we were pretty close to putting in a group order for the Ladies of Hack shirts. Primarily because we hadn't yet seen or been told about any other shirts. Sadly, we also lost one of our fairly regular players recently because he got married and his wife doesn't seem interested in playing with us.

Maybe next year I'll be campaigning for more child oriented stuff. Don't know, I haven't been to GenCon, but my currently 7 year old son has been looking through the PHB for the past several hours and is looking for information on Obad-Hai. My currently 11 year old daughter just finished leveling up her character for the game Torin is running for the four of us. I hope there is somewhere they can play at GenCon next year.

Peace, please.

-Sephera
 

MavrickWeirdo

First Post
Another site you may want to check out is Broad Universe. While not gaming specific, they are an international organization with the primary goal of promoting science fiction, fantasy, and horror written by women.

They often set up a "co-operative" booth at SF/F cons so new female authors can increase the exposure of their writing. I don't know if they have considered Gen Con as a venue.
 

Obad Hai

Explorer
Sephera said:
Maybe next year I'll be campaigning for more child oriented stuff. Don't know, I haven't been to GenCon, but my currently 7 year old son has been looking through the PHB for the past several hours and is looking for information on Obad-Hai.

-Sephera

You rang?
 

fusangite

First Post
Sephera said:
I am not trying to create a division between male and female or any kind of exclusivity. My post that caused quite a few objections was the start of a brain storming.
If we want to look at this from a brainstorming perspective, I think we would be helped by asking some basic questions.

Clearly, there are two aspects of women getting involved in gamer culture. The first is finding the subculture and its activities worthy of interest. The second is finding a conduit into the culture and a social niche within it.

It seems to me that what you are focused on is the women who clear the first hurdle but not the second. I think that some of the friction on this thread is being generated by the fact that some people believe that this group is a small one and that the main problem is the number of women clearing the first hurdle.

One of the problems you are facing on ENWorld is that all of the women here, including you, have managed to do both, to a greater or lesser extent. In my experience, people who circumvent major social barriers are often unaware that they have done so and fail to understand what is holding everybody else back. As a kid, I was dragged to a lot of events of a minority group of which my family was part where millionaires and politicians would exhort the other members of their minority to take up their rightful place in Vancouver's civic leadership. People who had not managed to get around systemic discrimination were never part of the discussion about how to get past barriers to achievement; the only people who were viewed as qualified to comment on these barriers were generally people who did not perceive them at all.

So, it seems to me that I can best facilitate brainstorming by posing the following questions:
1. What obstacles to involvement do women involved in the hobby experience in the present and the past?
2. What groups of women does the hobby under-represent most?
3. What groups of women does the hobby most adequately represent demographically?
4. What kind of RPG systems and playstyles have the highest portion of women involved?
What if rather than have women only spaces, we have a women in gaming space? I think this past year there was a special room for minis, a room for board games, a room for card type games, room for anime, etc. this past year. How are those not segregating? A women in gaming space could use games designed by females or games run by female DMs or something like that.
This could work.

Let me raise a few possible concerns, though. It seems to me that a significant portion of the women who have carved out a niche for themselves in the hobby are individuals who pride themselves on being able to be "one of the guys" and not to need or benefit from this kind of attention. It would be important to think through how this group would interact with such a project.

It seems to me that one could craft such a project more subtly the better we answered the questions above. It seems to me crucial in brainstorming to gather data about the problem before becoming too specific in designing solutions. For instance, I would be prepared to bet that a neopagan oriented space would be a more effective way of gathering women in essentially female space at Gen Con than would something that was more explicit in its objectives.
I wish I had been able to go to GenCon this year, but doctor ordered bedrest (where I'm not supposed to do more than 10 minutes of activity per hour and I spend the rest of the time laying on my side) doesn't exactly make that possible. I do still really want to go and I'm looking forward to bringing my children who at the time of GenCon will be 12 year old daughter, 8 year old son, 4 year old daughter, and 10-11 month old son. And Torin can come, too.
Upon arriving, I think you will find another demography problem Gen Con needs to confront is creating more ways of differentiating adolescent space and adult space. Every bad True Dungeon experience I have heard about involved the phrase, "we ended up with a twelve-year-old in our group."

Unlike others here, I have zero problem with gender- or age-segregated space as long as it's getting some kind of job done.

See you at Gen Con next year.
 

Sephera

First Post
Obad Hai said:
You rang?
Actually my son did. :lol: I think he finally found what he was looking for, but it's neat for me to see how he realizes the link between the references in the movie and the deities in the RPG. :) Maybe I should get him a future DM shirt.

-Sephera
 

mara

First Post
fusangite said:
Upon arriving, I think you will find another demography problem Gen Con needs to confront is creating more ways of differentiating adolescent space and adult space. Every bad True Dungeon experience I have heard about involved the phrase, "we ended up with a twelve-year-old in our group."

Unlike others here, I have zero problem with gender- or age-segregated space as long as it's getting some kind of job done.

See you at Gen Con next year.

Oh, I have zero problem with age segregated spaces. If it's too young to game, it should have a baby sitter, the last thing I want near my table is a bored toddler or screaming baby. If a bunch of females wish to congregate, let them do so, but the first person to point me to the Women's Area can eat my dicebag.

-Mara
 

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