GenCon Indy 2007, let's shake the male/female ratios--or not, they seem fine here ;)

[Obad Hai]

Actually my son did. I think he finally found what he was looking for, but it's neat for me to see how he realizes the link between the references in the movie and the deities in the RPG. Maybe I should get him a future DM shirt.

-Sephera

Yes, you should.

May the little sapling into a mighty DM grow!

 

[MavrickWeirdo]

I did have some luck today on an RPG for kids and I purchased it. I have a growing likeness for fairies, some that now me might call it an obsession. Anyway, I found an RPG geared for children ages 6-10 and adults who enjoy fairy tales. It's Faery's Tale from Firefly Games. I purchased it and plan to look over the rules and play it with my imps. From first glance, it looks like something that would be neat to have set up for the littlest gamers. Face it, gaming couples end up with gaming children that really want to be a part of what the big people are doing.

I heard about "Faery's Tale" in Robin Laws' Live Journal (He wrote the fictional story included in sections of the book.) Sounds like a fun game.

 

[Teflon Billy]

Perhaps it was people taking the OPs comments personally? Let me provide some quotes that sound like folks were taking it personally and attacking back. (Even if it wasn't their intent. I ascribe no motive here.)


Sorry you didn't like my shirt. Wait, no I'm not.

...if you hadn't sneered at me in your original post....

Why do you hate men?

Why do you hate the men of EN World especially?

You removed my smilies

 

[TheGM]

Wow. I've read (nearly) ever word of this thread...

And I'm left wondering.

The GMsSweetheart/The Webmistress/world-renowned author (in her field)/HardCore Gamer/Computer Geek that is my wife, partner, and evil twin, might fall either way on this topic.

She enjoys the increasing number of female gamers in Nordalia (we're at about 1:3, and about 1:1 in active games)... But she doesn't believe in equality by difference in any way.

I'll have to ask her when she awakens, she doesn't frequent ENWorld, as she despises the game system it is based upon. But this thread might interest her. I'll ask what she thinks, and circle back.

I suspect she'd say that she'd rather hang out with the Nordalians at GenCon than with women she didn't know... We were there this year, and she definitely wasn't looking for people from the sites she frequents, just the Nordalians that were there.

But I'll check tomorrow and post back.

I for one focus on gaming style and system preference more than race or sex. Plop on down at the table, we'll make room, as long as you can get along with others...

Guess that's why I'm running five campaigns and have 40 active players in Nordalia...

Don.

 

[billd91]

Totally agree. Maybe this reveals that I am part of the problem in Sephera's mind but I would have never have thought about women as "women gamers". Gamers are gamers.

I'm not sure what sexual identity has to do with anything...

The problem is that for some women, it has mattered because they haven't been able to be taken seriously either at a game table or by the marketers of a gaming company because of their sex. My wife ran seminars a few years ago about women in gaming (open to both men and women) where people talked about their experiences. And there are significant numbers of women gamers who have had issues come up because of their sex.

If that has not been your experience, count your lucky stars. But that's the way discrimination sometimes works. Some people experience it regularly, some occasionally, some not at all. And the people who do experience it often have trouble convincing the people who don't experience it that it is a real and valid problem.

 

[Rel]

The problem is that for some women, it has mattered because they haven't been able to be taken seriously either at a game table or by the marketers of a gaming company because of their sex. My wife ran seminars a few years ago about women in gaming (open to both men and women) where people talked about their experiences. And there are significant numbers of women gamers who have had issues come up because of their sex.

If that has not been your experience, count your lucky stars. But that's the way discrimination sometimes works. Some people experience it regularly, some occasionally, some not at all. And the people who do experience it often have trouble convincing the people who don't experience it that it is a real and valid problem.

I don't disbelieve or discount these reports. But the question then becomes, "What do you do about that?"

The only answer that I can think of is "Stop gaming with jerks."

I mean, a woman can't go to a seminar that will make GUYS SHE GAMES WITH behave differently. And guys who treat women like crap or are constantly hitting on them or whatever aren't going to say, "You know, my behavior has been wrong and I should go to a seminar that will get my head screwed on straight." If they were of a mind to do that they wouldn't be acting like jerks in the first place.

Find a group to game with where you are treated well and stay there. To that end, I'd even further encourage anyone and everyone to try some ENWorlder games at GenCon next year and every year. There are a host of reasons for this.

First up, every report I've gotten is that the GM's and games are above average in quality. Furthermore you KNOW who the players are going to be before you ever show up at the game. Even if there are ENWorlders that you don't want to game with (and I've met precious few of those), you'll know in advance and can elect not to take a spot in that game. BUT, I can virtually guarantee that any such game is going to tolerate ZERO poor treatment of the women at the table. The ENWorld guys I have met at GenCon have great affection for their fellow gamers who hail from her but especially the ladies. Any mistreatment of them is something up with which we shall not put.

 

[freebfrost]

Well, I was responding in kind. I am assuming she saw the picture in the gallery of me wearing that t-shirt, and probably of Pipsqueak and Whirli wearing theirs, otherwise how would she have known of the shirt?

I honest tried to find a screen capture of the scene from "Silence of the Lambs" where Jack Crawford talks about "assume," but I my google-fu is weak today...

As the OP notes below, she heard about it elsewhere, which is how I would have approached that had I owned the t-shirt in question. If it is an item you buy at a con, that is likely sold to other people, well, chances are they aren't talking specifically about you! I have to wonder why you assumed it was a personal attack, just because you happened to have a gallery picture posted of you in that shirt?

So she started the thread with a backhanded slap at women who wear edgy t-shirts.

Why do you feel it imperative that you defend "edgy" t-shirts to the point of aggression? If you are as comfortable as you claim to be, why are your feathers so ruffled from one simple post that mentions a t-shirt you happen to have?

It's that level of venom that marked the entire start of this thread - completely unjustified IMO. This is a new player, and new to the boards, and we have a contingent of the old-timers just doing a beat-down on her. Sad.

I'm glad she's stuck around, because I would have left these boards and never returned if that was one of my first conversations here.

 

[Sephera]

Interesting

It's been interesting to me to follow the threads I created on several different site. Obviously the people here have already leaped over (by a mile) the gap that others still find an issue.

The two game designers I mentioned earlier are still hoping to do something at GenCon, maybe a gathering of female Indie's. Don't know, but there have been quite a few responses there expressing a desire to fit in and be recognized. There are other websites being developed where women are expressing a desire to be recognized. I'm shouldering my way in to being just a gamer, but I'm also still proud to be a female gamer.

Somewhere I was reading last night a typical cast of character types for the DM. (I think it might have been in the preview of GM's Guide to the Promotion of cruelty to PCs.) I'm sure it was meant to be humorous, but still it had definitions of "The Token Female" player and "The Girlfriend." I was happy to note the author indicated that "The Token Female" was dangerous because they "often perform unexpected actions, which require much improvisation and die rolling by the GM. This player type is particularly dangerous when joined by another of her type." (I don't do that to you, Thunderfoot, do I? - where's the batting eyelashes smilie?)

Gotta go work on leveling up my character, so I can continue to reinforce to my children that there are no gender gaps in gaming. Then I need to go buy a paper mill to start printing out the neat stuff I've found.

Take care!

-Sephera

 

[Rel]

[Mod Hat ON]Folks, it's been established that this thread was contentious early on. Meanwhile things have moved into a more productive direction and no further good will be gained by discussing who was snarky to who two days ago. Let's move forward with the conversation and quit dwelling on the rocky start.

This is NOT a request.

 

[Buttercup]

Why do you feel it imperative that you defend "edgy" t-shirts to the point of aggression? If you are as comfortable as you claim to be, why are your feathers so ruffled from one simple post that mentions a t-shirt you happen to have?

Bring that question on over to Circvs Maximvs and I'll answer you, sir. I can't do it justice here. Besides, the mods asked everyone to drop it. I've moved on, I recommend you do so as well.