GenCon Indy 2007, let's shake the male/female ratios--or not, they seem fine here ;)

[freebfrost]

I'm honestly not sure why this thread has upset you.

I would say initial comments such as this might be the answer:

You stay on your high horse. I might have been willing to contribute to this thread in a meaningful way, if you hadn't sneered at me in your original post. But you've made it clear that you think I'm a defective woman in some way, so have a nice thread!

Not the best way to make someone feel welcome. Do you honestly not see the venom there?

 

[Buttercup]

I would say initial comments such as this might be the answer:

Not the best way to make someone feel welcome. Do you honestly not see the venom there?

Well, I was responding in kind. I am assuming she saw the picture in the gallery of me wearing that t-shirt, and probably of Pipsqueak and Whirli wearing theirs, otherwise how would she have known of the shirt? So she started the thread with a backhanded slap at women who wear edgy t-shirts. Honestly, if that comment had been left out, I would have responded with much more kindness, if I had responded at all. But see, I always assume that people who dish it out can also take it.

 

[Buttercup]

If we want to look at this from a brainstorming perspective, I think we would be helped by asking some basic questions.

Clearly, there are two aspects of women getting involved in gamer culture. The first is finding the subculture and its activities worthy of interest. The second is finding a conduit into the culture and a social niche within it.

It seems to me that what you are focused on is the women who clear the first hurdle but not the second. I think that some of the friction on this thread is being generated by the fact that some people believe that this group is a small one and that the main problem is the number of women clearing the first hurdle.

I hadn't thought of it that way, but as always, you are my philosophical ninja. You are exactly right. Once a woman clears the first hurdle, the second one is small, or perhaps nonexistant. I'm very interested in growing the hobby generally; that's why I spend so much energy making sure that D&D is welcome at my library. What I see is that boys and girls are drawn to roleplaying in pretty much equal numbers. These kids don't see D&D as a boy's hobby. They'd look at you like you were crazy if you suggested it.

In my experience, people who circumvent major social barriers are often unaware that they have done so and fail to understand what is holding everybody else back. As a kid, I was dragged to a lot of events of a minority group of which my family was part where millionaires and politicians would exhort the other members of their minority to take up their rightful place in Vancouver's civic leadership. People who had not managed to get around systemic discrimination were never part of the discussion about how to get past barriers to achievement; the only people who were viewed as qualified to comment on these barriers were generally people who did not perceive them at all.

Yes, I agree that this phenomenon exists. I'm not convinced it applies in gaming. Or rather, I'm not convinced that it applies any more.

Let me raise a few possible concerns, though. It seems to me that a significant portion of the women who have carved out a niche for themselves in the hobby are individuals who pride themselves on being able to be "one of the guys" and not to need or benefit from this kind of attention.

Is that how it looks to you? Interesting. To me, it just seemed like a bunch of friendly people with common interests doing their thing together. But perhaps this goes back to your earlier point about people who overcome barriers without even noticing them. Or maybe it's just that the people I started playing with were all adult professional types who were used to interacting in mixed groups without making a big deal of it.

I will say that I don't want special seminars and women-only space. I go to GenCon to see my friends and to game with them. Four days is already too short to allow me to spend time with everyone I want to see, without squandering precious hours doing something that doesn't interest me. The men of EN World have been, with one or two notable exceptions, perfectly pleasant and willing to include any woman who shows up with warmth and openness. GenCon is really a safe and low stress environment if you hang with this crowd.

 

[Sephera]

Well, I was responding in kind. I am assuming she saw the picture in the gallery of me wearing that t-shirt, and probably of Pipsqueak and Whirli wearing theirs, otherwise how would she have known of the shirt?

I knew the shirt because my husband (Torin/tkmjcw) told me about it when he returned from GenCon this year. I haven't visited the gallery other than to post a picture Torin had taken that included himself, Thunderfoot, Xath(?), and a few others. I hadn't actually seen the shirt at all, although I've since found it online at cafepress.com.

Anyway, I'm not going to continue to rely on second hand knowledge anymore. I'm my own character now and I'm going to work on my own to improve my knowledge and myself. Just hope Torin doesn't look at the credit card statement real soon. PDFs are SO easy to buy.



-Sephera

 

[Buttercup]

Anyway, I'm not going to continue to rely on second hand knowledge anymore. I'm my own character now and I'm going to work on my own to improve my knowledge and myself. Just hope Torin doesn't look at the credit card statement real soon. PDFs are SO easy to buy.

But see, you don't have to improve yourself to be worthy of GenCon. It's come-as-you-are. Go look at the gallery pictures, you'll see a bunch of regular folks having a metric buttload of fun.

I agree with fusangite that you'll have a harder time finding stuff for your kids to do than for yourself.

 

[Desdichado]

I will say that I don't want special seminars and women-only space. I go to GenCon to see my friends and to game with them. Four days is already too short to allow me to spend time with everyone I want to see, without squandering precious hours doing something that doesn't interest me.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why we love Buttercup so dang much.

I don't begrudge seminars like that for those who want them. I'm not sure I see how they're going to bring anyone new to the hobby, though.

Then again, I'm also not one of those guys who feels a sense of responsibility to the "greater good of the hobby;" a notion that I feel is somewhat absurd. If everyone enjoyed the hobby, played RPGs with their friends, and generally didn't sweat stuff like this, the "greater good of the hobby" would take care of itself, IMO.

 

[Buttercup]

Aw shucks, J-Dawg. I think you're swell too. Have you started work on your one-shot for GenCon 2007? I expect a seat at your table, mister!

 

[paulsometimes]

If I may speak on behalf of the Gorgeous Ladies of ENWorld for a moment:

"Exactly which of us do you think look old, JERK?!?!?"

I don't think I implied any of them look old, but that a couple that appear younger than the rest. Anyways, it was just a tongue-in-cheek statement pointing out that indeed, the ladies of ENWorld are indeed gorgeous.

 

[Sephera]

But see, you don't have to improve yourself to be worthy of GenCon. It's come-as-you-are. Go look at the gallery pictures, you'll see a bunch of regular folks having a metric buttload of fun.

I agree with fusangite that you'll have a harder time finding stuff for your kids to do than for yourself.

I want to be more knowledgable about D&D, maybe in time I can be a DM, too. So, I'm using the hours I have on bedrest to learn more about D&D in general. It's better than watching the dust motes drift around the room.

I purchased some .pdfs here in the ENWorld store. (and then didn't get the bright idea to be a community supporter until AFTER I had already spent nearly $50.--Oh, well, another lesson learned.) I also downloaded some of the free stuff. I want to be able to have an intelligent conversation instead of just sit on the side and nod or laugh when everyone else does.

I did have some luck today on an RPG for kids and I purchased it. I have a growing likeness for fairies, some that now me might call it an obsession. Anyway, I found an RPG geared for children ages 6-10 and adults who enjoy fairy tales. It's Faery's Tale from Firefly Games. I purchased it and plan to look over the rules and play it with my imps. From first glance, it looks like something that would be neat to have set up for the littlest gamers. Face it, gaming couples end up with gaming children that really want to be a part of what the big people are doing.

 

[mara]

I want to be more knowledgable about D&D, maybe in time I can be a DM, too. So, I'm using the hours I have on bedrest to learn more about D&D in general. It's better than watching the dust motes drift around the room.

I purchased some .pdfs here in the ENWorld store. (and then didn't get the bright idea to be a community supporter until AFTER I had already spent nearly $50.--Oh, well, another lesson learned.) I also downloaded some of the free stuff. I want to be able to have an intelligent conversation instead of just sit on the side and nod or laugh when everyone else does.

Now that's the way to do it!

I did have some luck today on an RPG for kids and I purchased it. I have a growing likeness for fairies, some that now me might call it an obsession. Anyway, I found an RPG geared for children ages 6-10 and adults who enjoy fairy tales. It's Faery's Tale from Firefly Games. I purchased it and plan to look over the rules and play it with my imps. From first glance, it looks like something that would be neat to have set up for the littlest gamers. Face it, gaming couples end up with gaming children that really want to be a part of what the big people are doing.

Kids gaming with other kids or under the supervision of a parent is good. Gets them into the hobby and keeps them busy. I would just recommend against taking them to GenCon/gaming conventions unless you set up such an activity with [the friends you have introduced to gaming locally/internet people/whatever] beforehand, since random adults are not guaranteed to have any desire or patience to have a kid at their table and the kid probably wouldn't have the stamina for it. Adult priviledges mean more if they have to earn them, anyway.