Goliaths and Gigantic Weapon Feat

[Rethalgamon]

If a Goliath ("Races of Stone") is able to use Large weapons without penalty (Powerful Build racial trait), shouldn't it be able to take the Gigantic Weapon feat ("Ultimate Feats", Mongoose publishing) and use Gargantuan weapons (two sizes larger than Large) at -2?

Gigantic Weapon: "You can wield a weapon two sizes larger than yourself with two hands, suffering a -2 to all attacks when doing so."

Or would this mean that he would be able to use Huge weapons (two sizes larger than Medium) at -2?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Its probably intended to be the latter, but I wouldn't be surprised if some don't play it the former way as well.

 

[Theroc]

Well, Powerful Build stated something like, "You count as one size larger than you are when it would be beneficial to do so." doesn't it?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I'd allow the former. Unless that feat has obscene pre-reqs, anyone built similar to the goliath is going to be eyeing that feat anyway, and why shoudl the goliath get stuck with the same sized weapon as a human in that case? The race does cost +1 LA.

That said, I'm not entirely sure how balanced that feat is, but I give my opinion on the assumption it is balanced.

 

[Rethalgamon]

Gigantic weapon only requires STR 15+ and BAB +3.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Yeah...if you allow it, Goliaths should get the benefit of their powerful build. Those are really easy pre-reqs, anyone who wants a giant weapon to overcompensate for other small and efficient implements will have that feat, it isn't fair for goliaths to get less benefit from it. And the gist of powerful build is you count as one size larger when it's beneficial, as someone else noted.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Probably how I'd let it play it as well, but I'm pretty liberal with my rulings...which is why my first post was non-committal.

 

[frankthedm]

well first, thats a 3.0 book right? In 3.0, that feat is weaker than the goliath's PB, being monkey grip with different wording.

Tiny, Small, Medium-Size, and Large Weapons: The size of a weapon compared to a character's size determines whether for the character the weapon is light, one-handed, two-handed, or too large to use.
Light: If the weapon's size category is smaller than the character's, then the weapon is light for that character. Light weapons are easier to use in the off hand, and they can be used while grappling. A light weapon can be used in one hand. There is no special bonus when using such a weapon in two hands.
One-Handed: If the weapon's size category is the same as a character's, then the weapon is one-handed for that character. If a one-handed melee weapon is used two-handed, apply one and a half times the character's Strength bonus to damage (provided the character has a bonus).
Two-Handed: If the weapon's size category is one step larger than a character's, then the weapon is two-handed for that character. A two-handed melee weapon can be used effectively in two hands, and when damage is dealt with it, add one and a half times the character's Strength bonus to damage (provided the character has a bonus).
Too Large to Use: If the weapon's size category is two or more steps larger than a character's own, the weapon is too large for the character to use.
>>>>>>>>>>>
For instance, a Large version of a longsword does 2d6 points of damage (up from 1d8), and a Huge version of a longsword does 2d8 points of damage (increasing each d6 to a d8).

[3.5 changed the Huge version of a longsword to 3d6]

SO the feat, even if it does work that way, should only supply the ability to wield a 3.5 huge weapon iif it combines with powerful build.

Well, Powerful Build stated something like, "You count as one size larger than you are when it would be beneficial to do so." doesn't it?

that part is for opposed rolls. I'll grab the text from the half giant since they use the same text last i checked.

Powerful Build: The physical stature of half-giants lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger.

Whenever a half-giant is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the half-giant is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him.

A half-giant is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A half-giant can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.

And a bit from the faq, for what that is worth.

Does the powerful build racial trait allow a character to
take advantage of feats for size Large or larger creatures,
such as Awesome Blow? Would a half-dragon goliath
qualify as Large for determining whether it has wings?
No and no. The powerful build racial trait (found in the
goliath entry in RS and the half-giant entry in XPH) spells out
exactly when the character is treated as one size larger than
normal:
1. Whenever subjected to a size modifier or special size
modifier for an opposed check. This includes grapple checks,
bull rush attempts, and trip attempts.
2. When determining whether a creature’s special attacks
based on size can affect him. This includes improved grab and
swallow whole.
3. When determining what size of weapons the character
can use.
That’s it. The character isn’t treated as one size larger when
determining space, reach, Hide check penalty, or for the
purpose of qualifying for anything that requires size.
Some feats, prestige classes, or other game elements can
specifically allow a Medium character with powerful build to
qualify as if he were Large. Such examples are specific and
intentional exceptions to the normal rule.

 

[udalrich]

Among the benefits that Frank listed is being treated as one size larger when considering what weapons can be wielded. So if a human with the feat can wield a Huge (Large) weapon, a goliath with the feat could use a Gargantuan (Huge) weapon.

Based on what was said about the feat being from 3.0 and 3.0 weapon sizes, I suspect the human gets a large weapon and the goliath gets a huge weapon.

 

[Megahedron]

The races of stone powerful build ability blatantly specifies that it stacks with any abilities that increase size category. If he had the monkey grip feat he would be treated as a huge character for purposes of wielding weapons. Personally, this is broken. As a dm, I would make penalties. Example, there is no way to swing(Maybe even carry) a 30 foot sword in a room of almost any kind.