D&D 5E Great Weapon Mastery - once more into the breach! (with math)

[Greenstone.Walker]

Crossbow expert lets you make a bonus action attack with a hand crossbow whenever you make an attack with a one handed weapon. So it's TWFing with a single weapon.

To be a little picky, the extra attack from the Crossbow Expert feat is not Two-Weapon Fighting. First, you get your DEX bonus to damage for the extra attack (which you wouldn't get if it was using the TWF rules). Second, TWF only applies to melee weapons; a hand crossbow is a ranged weapon.

Also, you need a free hand to reload a hand crossbow, so you can't actually get the extra attack with a weapon in both hands.

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

Duplicate post.

 

[Helldritch]

To be a little picky, the extra attack from the Crossbow Expert feat is not Two-Weapon Fighting. First, you get your DEX bonus to damage for the extra attack (which you wouldn't get if it was using the TWF rules). Second, TWF only applies to melee weapons; a hand crossbow is a ranged weapon.

Also, you need a free hand to reload a hand crossbow, so you can't actually get the extra attack with a weapon in both hands.

A hasted 20th level SS crossbow expert is now holding a 6 shooter in his hands... 1d4+15 dmg with each hit. A fantasy dream come true...

 

[Oofta]

Hand crossbows are one handed weapons. Crossbow expert lets you make a bonus action attack with a hand crossbow whenever you make an attack with a one handed weapon. So it's TWFing with a single weapon.


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Just for reference, this was clarified in sage advice.

Does Crossbow Expert let you fire a hand crossbow and then fire it again as a bonus action? It does! Take a look at the feat’s third benefit. It says you can attack with a hand crossbow as a bonus action when you use the Attack action to attack with a one-handed weapon. A hand crossbow is a one-handed weapon, so it can, indeed, be used for both attacks, assuming you have a hand free to load the hand crossbow between the two attacks.​

So attacks are similar to two-weapon fighting except that one is holding the hand crossbow while the other is busy drawing ammunition.

Which is why my fighter/rogue can do stupidly high amounts of damage. Which is great ... until it isn't. It feels like a feat tax at higher levels. Most opponents don't have that high of an AC and I get advantage on a regular basis. Add in lucky and a helpful bard (occasionally throw in bless), and I still don't miss very often. YMMV of course.

 

[Ancalagon]

Hand crossbows are one handed weapons. Crossbow expert lets you make a bonus action attack with a hand crossbow whenever you make an attack with a one handed weapon. So it's TWFing with a single weapon.


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That is so badly written that my brain protected my sanity by preventing me from realizing that the hand crossbow bonus action *could very come* from firing THAT VERY SAME hand crossbow. You are correct that this RAW, and I hate it.

 

[Barolo]

So is the problem really the Champion's expanded critical range?

You know, the champion will make better use of the cleaving bullet than a battle master, but will fare worse with the power attack bullet. So, all in all, to me it is still a wash.

 

[hejtmane]

That is so badly written that my brain protected my sanity by preventing me from realizing that the hand crossbow bonus action *could very come* from firing THAT VERY SAME hand crossbow. You are correct that this RAW, and I hate it.

Handcrossbow + sharpshooter is the ranged Polearm +gwm builds oh but wait theres more I can use attacks at close range without penalty (note this also applys to range spells)

• Being within 5 feet of a hostile creature doesn’t impose disadvantage on your ranged attack rolls.

 

[TwoSix]

Handcrossbow + sharshooter is the ranged Polearm +gwm builds oh but wait theres more I can use attacks at close range without penalty (note this also applys to range spells)

• Being within 5 feet of a hostile creature doesn’t impose disadvantage on your ranged attack rolls.

With a +2 bonus to hit cherry on top.

At our table, we call it the "John Wick" build, and we (OK, mostly me) like to threaten using it during character creation, just to make the DM wince.

 

[hejtmane]

With a +2 bonus to hit cherry on top.

At our table, we call it the "John Wick" build, and we (OK, mostly me) like to threaten using it during character creation, just to make the DM wince.

I have had it in my game as DM their are counters too it bahahaha

Also for John Wick you need a little Monk in their

 

[Blue]

Everytime someone does math like this, I want to cry at the time wasted.

Because it doesn't show anything in a white room vacuum. When a character has GWM, other party members will enhance that character because it is effective to do so.

So, if your math is "he's attacking the one the monk stunned or some spell restrained (advantage), is one of the Bless targets from the cleric (+1d4), is one of the two with twinned Haste from the sorcerer (another attack), if he misses he'll use Precision (+d to hit only if needed)", then you can compare we're seeing at the tables. Of course not this particular mix, but cascade of paty help (either buffs or debuffing foes) plus individual abilities like champion+advantage for 19% crit chance per attack which means a bonus action attack.

Also since it doesn't reduce the chance of crit at all (and gives a bonus on crit), it has great synergy with crit boosters (barbarian brutal critical, half-orc savage attacks, paladin divine smite, fighter champion). These can give even more reason for the party to throw buffs on the GWM character as more effective then a direct move.