Grim Tales + Black Company = Big Fun!

[Old One]

One of the reasons I've liked Fatigue/Endurance type systems since the old Dragonquest days. But in defense of D&D, except in those scenarios where time really is of the essence, playing out routine downtime is kinda silly. Easy enough to just handwave rest breaks except in unusual circumstances.

Agree completely. Unless there is a time constraint...it is easy to assume that happens. I guess I may be thinking more about the 2E days where combats would last forever...and no one ever got tired. I actually have had several occassions (mainly chase/pursuit scenes) to have PCs start making Fort saves to avoid fatigue/exhaustion...definitely ratchets up the tension level.

~ OO

 

[Old One]

I made small sheets to show two rows of O's, top being HPs and marked off right to left, bottom being non-lethal and marked off left to right. When they crossed, you were out.

Now that's a good idea...

~ OO

 

[nakia]

Reading the Grim Tales book and playing in Old One's game day game has made me a GT convert. I ordered the book yesterday. I had a great time and loved the rules set, even if it did take some getting used to. I was the one confused about the whole lethal vs. nonlethal damage thing but that all got straightened out.

One thing I liked was the BCCS modifications to weapons -- the "fortified," "light," "deadly," etc. It was a challenge keeping up with all the effects, but it was a good way to add "specialness" to items without magic. That could be a drawback for some people, those who want really low magic and low bookkeeping. It also has the potential to make equipment more important that character, as many people criticize straight 3.5 D&D recomended magic items for doing. Still, I liked this feature.

Not playing a spellcaster, I can't really comment on the magic system, other than it looked complicated. I'm glad Henry and Riggs knew what they were doing.

I do have a question about massive damage thresholds and saves. I don't remember anyone having to make one in our game day game, nor did anyone ever have to make one in the other GT game I have been involved in. Both were using the Fewer Dead Heroes variant where MDT = Con + Armor Bonus + 1/2 level. Do these types of saves end up being pretty rare? As a 9th level party going up against some tough foes, I was thinking someone would have been forced to make one, at least.

 

[Old One]

Reading the Grim Tales book and playing in Old One's game day game has made me a GT convert. I ordered the book yesterday. I had a great time and loved the rules set, even if it did take some getting used to. I was the one confused about the whole lethal vs. nonlethal damage thing but that all got straightened out.

One thing I liked was the BCCS modifications to weapons -- the "fortified," "light," "deadly," etc. It was a challenge keeping up with all the effects, but it was a good way to add "specialness" to items without magic. That could be a drawback for some people, those who want really low magic and low bookkeeping. It also has the potential to make equipment more important that character, as many people criticize straight 3.5 D&D recomended magic items for doing. Still, I liked this feature.

Not playing a spellcaster, I can't really comment on the magic system, other than it looked complicated. I'm glad Henry and Riggs knew what they were doing.

I do have a question about massive damage thresholds and saves. I don't remember anyone having to make one in our game day game, nor did anyone ever have to make one in the other GT game I have been involved in. Both were using the Fewer Dead Heroes variant where MDT = Con + Armor Bonus + 1/2 level. Do these types of saves end up being pretty rare? As a 9th level party going up against some tough foes, I was thinking someone would have been forced to make one, at least.

Yes! Another GT convert !

The equipment section is one of my favorites parts about BCCS. One thing to keep in mind is that a true "Masterwork" BCCS item (six enhancement slots) would take all the wealth of a typical 7th or 8th level PC to purchase.

I think I missed one or two MDT opportunities during combat. The only ones really capable of inflicting them where the huge scorpions and a couple of spells. It is one of those things that you just have to get used to working with. In the Arthurian GT 1-shot I ran...we had a couple of MDT checks (including 1 or 2 blown rolls) - due to some major smackdown by a Firbolg giant.

~ OO

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

I do have a question about massive damage thresholds and saves. I don't remember anyone having to make one in our game day game, nor did anyone ever have to make one in the other GT game I have been involved in. Both were using the Fewer Dead Heroes variant where MDT = Con + Armor Bonus + 1/2 level. Do these types of saves end up being pretty rare? As a 9th level party going up against some tough foes, I was thinking someone would have been forced to make one, at least.

That's a pretty high MDT -- good for a Gameday, though, where you want the players worried but don't want someone to get ganked in the first five minutes and then sit around for 4 hours. I suspect most of your guys had a MDT of around 22-23? That's hard to do in a single shot -- pretty much requring a crit+good damage roll.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Well if you use FDH, AND set the MDT to Con + Armor + 1/2 level then, no, you're not going to have MDT saves very often.

(1) FDH reduces the incoming damage , (2) armor then applies AGAIN to up the MDT, (3) Level applies to up the MDT, and then you get to con. A guy with 12 con, chain, and 4th level will only be threatened when the foe does 24 points of damage or more. At that level the average non-tough PC will already be all but dead anyway.

I use straight Con and FDH. PCs take armor MOSTLY for the Damage Conversion value, which keeps them from taking MDTs. I also scale the DC of the save with increasing damage. Even then I've only had 2 characters need MDT saves, one failed on a flubbed roll (2) but the other saved. The rules have actually saved their bacon more than once as the stealthy Fast hero has been able to take out guards with fast silent kills (MDT save on all successfully damaging strikes during the surprise round).

Not a combat-heavy game, however, as shown by the dominance of the girl with the stick.

I'm also loving the mastercraft rules out of the BCCS. I'm applying them to most of my games. I'm thinking of taking "concept" of specialized lightsabers from KotOR and using the BCCS enhancements to represent it ... it'll be an all-jedi game anyway, and it'll give the guys something fun to play with.

Right now I'm really salivating to run a Grim Tales based D&D styled game ... sort of traditional Sword and Sorcery High Fantasy, but with GT classes and whatnot. Lower magic, of course, but monsters and dwarves and elves and all that rot. Seems sort of backward, but I think I'd like a GT D&D game better than a D&D D&D game. Heh heh heh.

--fje

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I do have a question about massive damage thresholds and saves. I don't remember anyone having to make one in our game day game, nor did anyone ever have to make one in the other GT game I have been involved in. Both were using the Fewer Dead Heroes variant where MDT = Con + Armor Bonus + 1/2 level. Do these types of saves end up being pretty rare?

Notice that in your example, you're counting armor twice. It adds to your threshold, and it reduces the damage you take. That will tend to overemphasize the importance of armor and minimize the impact of MDT.

I like FDH a lot, so forced to choose I would use FDH and straight CON as your Threshold. (This also allows makes a few Tough talents relevant, too.)

One more comment on FDH. GlassJaw was complaining to me the other day that he thought it added too much bookkeeping for the GM. I made a comment to him then that I really wish I'd thought to put in the book:

The GM doesn't need to track separate totals for lethal and non-lethal damage-- just keep right on subtracting damage from the total hp. When that's depleted, the enemy is unconscious. Let the players decide what to do with them at that point. If they want them dead, they're dead; if not, they're not. It's really irrelevant to Goblin #14 how much of his damage is lethal or non-lethal.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I made small sheets to show two rows of O's, top being HPs and marked off right to left, bottom being non-lethal and marked off left to right. When they crossed, you were out.

It is a great idea, and very visually appealing, but not as easy when you're talking 80+ hit points.

On the Grim Tales character sheet in the book, I give two columns. On one side you subtract lethal damage from your total hit points. One the other side you add up all your non-lethal damage (from zero). When the non-lethal total column exceeds the balance of the lethal column, you're out.

 

[Old One]

That's a pretty high MDT -- good for a Gameday, though, where you want the players worried but don't want someone to get ganked in the first five minutes and then sit around for 4 hours. I suspect most of your guys had a MDT of around 22-23? That's hard to do in a single shot -- pretty much requring a crit+good damage roll.

Actually, the MDT for this one, since I was using FDH, was CON + 1/2 level + shield bonus (shield had to be readied)...I didn't want to count armor twice (like I did before). Most of the MDTs where in the 18-20 range. The one PC that got snatched up by the gargantuan scropion at the end of the scenario had improved damage threshold and a high CON, so her MDT was up around 23.

~ OO

 

[Old One]

Right now I'm really salivating to run a Grim Tales based D&D styled game ... sort of traditional Sword and Sorcery High Fantasy, but with GT classes and whatnot. Lower magic, of course, but monsters and dwarves and elves and all that rot. Seems sort of backward, but I think I'd like a GT D&D game better than a D&D D&D game. Heh heh heh.

--fje

Hear, Hear!

~ OO