GTS 2009 D&D Seminar - the Rouse discusses D&D

[wedgeski]

Anecdotal, but I have personally spoken with at least a dozen people who came to our gameday meetups or delve night event because they were listening to the podcast and wanted to give the game a try in person. These are typically easy to spot, brand new cube of chessex dice, no miniature, and a copy of PHB1 with no dents or dings on the corners yet.

That's really cool.

Thanks for your posts in this thread Scott.

 

[Mark]

That is out of a sampling of about 75 unique individuals over the past month or two, and that was only those who told me about it... I didn't fish for that information so there could be more.

They must have gaming in common, anyway.

 

[Mournblade94]

In the end the game should evolve, not just in it's presentation and media (DDI) but also in what it offers in gameplay. I think a prime example of this is when you look at SWSE vs. D&D 3.5, the addition of talents evolved the game into a direction where character concepts outside of combat had interesting choices and advantages.

This is the evolution I was hoping for with 4e. I love SWSE. IT is a good improvement, and I love talent trees.

Many of the gamers I am friends with left D&D at 2nd edition for HERO system. They did not come back to 4e because well, HERO already has the power structure built in, and they feel HERO does it better than 4e. I can't comment as I am more familiar with 4e than HERO at this point.

Yes, typed in haste. D&D Fans: lapsed players (played but stopped typically due to a file change like starting a career), current players of older editions (e.g. OD&D *cough* Dialgo *cough*), novels readers (FR, Dragonlance etc), and people who have interacted in other ways like video games. Basically people who we don't need to explain what D&D is.

I would like to know this too. I think it comes down to many reasons like personal preference on a system, some people don't like or feel the need for change. 3.5 was a good game system that people are happy to keep playing, etc. There is no silver bullet answer that will suddenly get people to drop hatthey are doing and start playing 4e so wee need to appraoch it from many angles.

Many older gamers (like myself) do not like the gameplay of the powerstructure. Many of us feel very little difference between playing a wizard or a rogue or a paladin. It is almost like every character was reduced to a class with its own specialized 'spell list'.

It feels as if the change to 4e threw out the baby with the bathwater.

It could however simply be a difference between people that like classical fantasy and people that like the contemporary fantasy model of allowing for everything and anything. I preferred the classical fantasy as being the "core" but always allowing the options for the other tastes.

 

[Mournblade94]

Absolutely true.

4e has enticements, but it also has obstacles. None of those obstacles are non-negotiable but, because you're competing against your prior editions, the enticements need to be stronger to force a switch.

I had to quote this because I strongly second this.

 

[BryonD]

I had to quote this because I strongly second this.

I also agree.

Can you clarify, in a general sense, how you plan to go after prior edition hold-outs?

Do you plan in any way to bring the game to us? Or do you plan to convince us that we should switch to the game pretty much as it is now?

No edition war here, but for my own personal enjoyment, 3E provides a significantly more rewarding gaming experience. Are you going to try to market to me? I don't mean that as confrontational or to imply you owe me anything. But do you mean people like me when you say you will target older edition players? If no, that is cool. I'll go on having fun just as I am now. If yes, then I'll pay attention. I'll be open minded and see what you offer. It is going to take a lot. But I'd love to see you pull it off. I'd be thrilled.

But I'm not clear that you even intend to try what I'm asking. Do you?

 

[alleynbard]

Heyas Scott,

Dungeon needs some higher octane fuel than the stuff you're feeding it now; consider more 4E conversions of classic adventures, and not just 1st edition mods. Refactor them a bit for all the things that work great in 4E (dynamic terrain, skill challenges, etc.), but also use that as way to demonstrate both better roleplaying chops, and fidelity to traditional play style modes. Ravenloft is a great example candidate for this treatment; I'd like to see a really polished 4E refactor of Sunken Citadel, or better yet, Sinister Secret Of Saltmarsh. This is ideal DDI content (either free or sub), and would create opportunities to make a statement about the direction D&D is going.

Hear, hear!

While I have enjoyed Dungeon so far, I really think some conversions would take it to the next level. There are worthy adventures from every previous edition that could really use a 4e update. I can imagine some of these might see actual print. But Dungeon is a very cost effective way of doing these conversions and it would definitely go a long way to showing the ability of the new ruleset.

Of course, it might also lead to an outcry that makes the opening of the Ark of the Covenant seem like a ride on Disney's Haunted Mansion. So, there is a risk. But I think it is one worth taking.

 

[Festivus]

Scott, can you elaborate on what "retool delve night" means?

I have been running the delves for a few months at the FLGS but it's not a huge success yet and would be curious what to look forward to in terms of support from WoTC.

 

[alleynbard]

Scott, can you elaborate on what "retool delve night" means?

I have been running the delves for a few months at the FLGS but it's not a huge success yet and would be curious what to look forward to in terms of support from WoTC.

I am going to just step out here and look ignorant, but what are Delve Nights?

It sounds like something I might be interested in doing for my local store and if Wizards is looking to re-tool it for more support, I would like to know what it is and if I can get on board.

 

[Festivus]

I am going to just step out here and look ignorant, but what are Delve Nights?

It sounds like something I might be interested in doing for my local store and if Wizards is looking to re-tool it for more support, I would like to know what it is and if I can get on board.

For the present, once per month you order the delve night kit for a retail location. WoTC mails out two copies of the delve, which consists of four cardstock double sided full color encounters, which are tied together with a very simple plot of some sort. If you have seen the new Delve book, it's in the same format as those, only each delve is on a single 8.5x11 sheet back to back rather than opposing pages. They are not bound. They also include a single pregen character appropriate for the delve. Each encounter takes roughly an hour to complete.

The current month delve is level 5, next months is level 18 I think. So month to month they are radically different and there is nothing tying them together.

I'd love to see 5 pregens instead of 1.. for a full and complete party. A progression from level 1 to 30, much like the book, so that players could bring thier characters each month and level them up... faster progression than a regular game, but allow for some consistency with the characters. This gets more important at paragon and epic tiers... next month's delve is going to be rough.

I'd also like to see poster maps but those are likely too expensive to do. They do use fairly current dungeon tiles (with the exception of this month which uses two sets of the really hard to find Ruins of the Wild... no more of that stuff guys, please!)

 

[alleynbard]

For the present, once per month you order the delve night kit for a retail location. WoTC mails out two copies of the delve, which consists of four cardstock double sided full color encounters, which are tied together with a very simple plot of some sort. If you have seen the new Delve book, it's in the same format as those, only each delve is on a single 8.5x11 sheet back to back rather than opposing pages. They are not bound. They also include a single pregen character appropriate for the delve. Each encounter takes roughly an hour to complete.

The current month delve is level 5, next months is level 18 I think. So month to month they are radically different and there is nothing tying them together.

I'd love to see 5 pregens instead of 1.. for a full and complete party. A progression from level 1 to 30, much like the book, so that players could bring thier characters each month and level them up... faster progression than a regular game, but allow for some consistency with the characters. This gets more important at paragon and epic tiers... next month's delve is going to be rough.

I'd also like to see poster maps but those are likely too expensive to do. They do use fairly current dungeon tiles (with the exception of this month which uses two sets of the really hard to find Ruins of the Wild... no more of that stuff guys, please!)

Thanks. I will talk to my store owner about that. I was also thinking about pursuing Living Forgotten Realms in the store, but there is no reason both couldn't happen. More D&D is always a good thing.