GTS 2009 D&D Seminar - the Rouse discusses D&D

[Brown Jenkin]

We will also be introducing new stuff that either fans or we feel is missing (familiars, classes, worlds, adventure style, D&Di tools etc) and cool stuff that is completely new including brand new classes, races, adventures etc.

And to answer the implied question this does not mean going back and supporting older editions.

OK, some people are asking for dual support, but that wasn't really my implied question. The earlier part about familiars, classes, worlds, adventure style, D&Di tools etc was really the question. Things like Familiars, Gnomes, and Half-Orcs are good starts to bringing 4e closer to what some earlier edition people expect. Adventure Style is another though I still think that needs some work as well as play style.

I think there is a demand for less combat intensive modules and more robust rules support for non-combat roles. This doesn't mean scrap the existing rules, but add more (even optional) rules to them so that more people have more choices.

I personally still play 3.x because I am still not sold on the belief that 4e is more than a glorified miniatures game. This is not meant as an insult, but just a statement that reflects my belief in how I see the 4e ruleset and what type of play style I see it as designed for. Feel free to add that as just another data point in how some people view 4e and where marketing might be directed.

Edit: P.S. I have noticed and appreciate the recent lack of 3.x was broken and here is how/why 4e fixes it comments from WotC.

 

[Greg K]

Could we quit saying "dislike". I don't know how many of us actually "dislike" 4E. I think there are a fair number like me, who thinks its a good game, just not good enough to be one of my premiere games.

No, I will not quit saying dislike, because many people do dislike it (I actually like certain elements compared to 3e, but dislike (not hate) the game as a whole). However, I'd be willing to amend what I wrote to read "dislike or [x]" What would you like x to be "like it, but not enough to switch from their current edition"?

 

[BryonD]

And to answer the implied question this does not mean going back and supporting older editions.

For me, I didn't think you implied that.

To me the question was, will the 4E of the future be different than the 4E of the present in ways intended to attract people who simply find 3E (or something else) a preferable alternative. I think it is a fair question in context of your earlier post. But even then I did not see it as a realistic potential. If you said yes, then I'd eagerly await what magic you have coming. But 4E is fundamentally different in approach and the kind of changes I was asking about do not seem feasible. My read on your answer here is a confirmation of that.

And that is cool. Good luck. Thanks

 

[BryonD]

No, I will not quit saying dislike, because many people do dislike it (I actually like certain elements compared to 3e, but dislike (not hate) the game as a whole). However, I'd be willing to amend what I wrote to read "dislike or [x]" What would you like x to be "like it, but not enough to switch from their current edition"?

Heh, I'm pretty sure I'm on the "haters" list.
But I'll certainly clarify that I could enjoy an evening playing 4E with friends. But this is in the same group Descent or Guitar Hero or DDM.

However, if the objective was to have a good time playing an RPG, 4E is way down the list of preferences. I don't have time for all the others I prefer.

 

[C_M2008]

I was wondering if perhaps there were plans to bring D&D into the mainstream?

Something similar to Blizzard's WoW campaign where they get celebrity endorsements.

Internet ads are obviously ineffective (everyone ignores them we all know it) but how about ads in mainstream magazines?

Perhaps a play a session with Celebrity X (who of course should actually play D&D and be a real well know by non-gamers celebrity) for a day at GenCon or similar. It seems like a good way to bring the game to the masses, especially given our celebrity obssessed culture nowadays. It would probably cost a fair penny, but I imagine the hype and potential new customers might be worth it.

I realize my suggestions are expensive, but it seems like there is a much larger potential market waiting to be tapped. Movie & TV product placements are a great start, but are only largely noticed by fans anyway unless they are on screen for a while, get an in character mention or are glaringly obvious.

Anyway it'll be interesting to see what you have in store.

 

[avin]

Even p0rn actresses play Wow, that could be said from D&D? I don't think so... Wow is far more popular than D&D these days.

 

[Corinth]

Even p0rn actresses play Wow, that could be said from D&D? I don't think so... Wow is far more popular than D&D these days.

Take the stereotypical D&D gameplay experience, and then translate into a medium that has a far superior network effect as well as far superior personal convenience, and you have World of Warcraft. Blizzard beat WOTC at its own game.

 

[Scott_Rouse]

I was wondering if perhaps there were plans to bring D&D into the mainstream?

You mean mainstream sales at WalMart or that 89% of people asked recognize the name?

Something similar to Blizzard's WoW campaign where they get celebrity endorsements.

We wont pay for this but plenty of celebrities like Vin Diesel and Felicia Day come out from time to time to profess their love for D&D

Internet ads are obviously ineffective (everyone ignores them we all know it) but how about ads in mainstream magazines?

Actually, this is not really true. Every day magazines become less and less viable as a advertising medium (Starlog I am looking at you) while our use of internet ads have CTRs (click through rates) well above accepted industry standards for effective.

Perhaps a play a session with Celebrity X (who of course should actually play D&D and be a real well know by non-gamers celebrity) for a day at GenCon or similar. It seems like a good way to bring the game to the masses, especially given our celebrity obssessed culture nowadays. It would probably cost a fair penny, but I imagine the hype and potential new customers might be worth it.

Like this?

I realize my suggestions are expensive, but it seems like there is a much larger potential market waiting to be tapped. Movie & TV product placements are a great start, but are only largely noticed by fans anyway unless they are on screen for a while, get an in character mention or are glaringly obvious.

Anyway it'll be interesting to see what you have in store.

You should watch this, or this for mainstream placement.

 

[C_M2008]

You mean mainstream sales at WalMart or that 89% of people asked recognize the name?

More like a mainstream activity to do like poker. The recognition was good (89% is huge) but a follow up question among the 89% about how they perceived the brand would be interesting.

We wont pay for this but plenty of celebrities like Vin Diesel and Felicia Day come out from time to time to profess their love for D&D

This is very true. I think a paid campaign would help but I understand there are reasons you won't/can't do them .

Actually, this is not really true. Every day magazines become less and less viable as a advertising medium (Starlog I am looking at you) while our use of internet ads have CTRs (click through rates) well above accepted industry standards for effective.

I was thinking more along the lines of Time, Scientific American, Sports Illustrated, Cosmo, etc. I've never heard of Starlog. The death of small print media is fairly inevitable but there are lots of magazines that still have a huge subscriber base--I do imagine a full page ad in such a magazine would be pricey though--especially in a good section. I suppose I question internet ads because I view them as an annoyance, why else would many sites charge you to have ad free access. I would be curious to know how well CTRs translate to sales though-but that may be difficult to measure.

Like this?

No offense to Wil Wheaton, but he isn't exactly well known outside of geek circles. Someone like Vin Diesel and Felicia Day as you mentioned would be more along the lines I'm thinking of. Again I can see that this would have cost/availablity ramifications just a thought.

You should watch this, or this for mainstream placement.

These were very well done. More like this (and maybe something in a big movie) would be superb IMO.

I don't mean to hassle and I hope It's not taken that way, I'm just really curious as to the strategy/timing for moving beyond the core demographic (which seems to have stalled in place for many years, but that may just be me) and any plans to move beyond being a niche activity (video games were such once) to something more common place. I suspect some technological intergration may be required however(a D&D app for say an Iphone or blackberry would be supercool---although the facebook thing grew old quick so I'm not sure how that would/could be done) before there's any chance of that.

Anyway Just a guy who's curious about the future of his favourite hobby.
Thanks for all your replies in this thread Scott, very interesting reading thus far.

 

[Mark]

And to answer the implied question this does not mean going back and supporting older editions.

It is a shame for many fans of 3.XE that WotC does not feel they can also move forward and support that edition but at least with this absolute statement you will have put many future questions to bed. Thank you for being so forthright.