Half-Elves, yes? Why not Half-Dwarves?

[arscott]

I don't like the Defiant Even Unto Death racial ability. Other races have abilities they can use every encounter, your mul has an ability it can use only when it is dying. You could however make this into a Mul Feat.

The +5 bonus to saves vs ongoing damage is too good. However you can probably turn this into the racial power. Once per encounter muls get +5 bonus to saves vs ongoing damage until the end of their next turn. Or something like that.

I kinda felt that these two canceled each other out. That said, I think that the changes King-Panda made balance them out a bit better. (Though I think the language in shrug it off could be cleaned up a bit)

The original Mul in Darksun couldn't speak dwarven only common and one other of choice.[/QUOTE]That's because dwarven wasn't one of that world's languages. Let's keep this version a bit more core-compatible.

 

[colemanpalm]

it's still pretty hard for me to imagine a half dwarf as 6'2", although i'm not familiar with dark sun. also, +3 racial bonus to all saving throws against ongoing damage is still a little ridiculous.

also, i'm not sure if it was a typo or not, but it says Müls can use like a rock as an encounter power? but you have shrug it off listed, and like a rock is lower...

if like a rock is an encounter, thats essentially resist 1 to all damage every combat encounter... which speaks for itself.

and shrug it off every encounter is also slightly overpowered. it just seems like these müls are rendered immune to most debilitating effects. i get how it goes with the storyline-roleplaying aspects of the character, but in combat it would start to get ridiculous, in my opinion.

 

[King-Panda]

I made those changes pretty quick, something like 10 minutes, so I managed to fudge it up it seems. I was renaming and moving stuff around, didn't notice that I changed Like a Rock to a feat. The "You can use Like a Rock as an encounter power" is supposed to be for Shrug it off, not Like a Rock.

I admit I have no experience with Dark Sun, and no nothing of it's story. The thought of a Half-Dwarf has always intrigued me though, and I thought I'd try my hand at helping out. As far as the languages go, I plan on doing something different for my campaign, so the point it moot for me; If they only know common in Darksun, then we should just keep it to common here.

I didn't notice that it said 5'6"-6'2" when I posted it, and I agree it should be changed. Doing some super-rough estimates with dwarf and human heights, I think 5'-5'7" (8" variable)would be a good middle ground between Dwarves' 4'3"-4'9" (7" variable)and humans' 5'6"-6'2" (9" variable).

As far as balancing the racials and the feats, here's what I'm thinking:

Sterner Stuff: If +3 vs ongoing damage seems too much, a drop down to +2 seems okay; that's only 10% more than a normal save. Dwarves, Eladrin, and Halflings all get +5, so +2 should be fine.

Shrug it Off: I put the "failed save does not count as a failed save and has no other effect" for the reason that a failed save can cause worse conditions, regarding things like petrification and sleep. I don't think a player should be penalized for using their racial abilities, so I'd want to keep that aware in the power. We can still change how it reads if it doesn't make sense, as long as its still there (IMO). I made it a free action instead of a Imm Reac since losing your one Imm action to make a save seems a little harsh. To balance the power a bit, we could require the player to spend a healing surge to use the power, and remove "weakened" from the trigger, so that it'll read like this in the end:

Shrug it off Mul Racial Power
Encounter
Free Action - Personal
Trigger: You are hit by an attack that makes you Immobilized, Restrained, or Slowed
Effect: Spend a healing surge. Instead of gaining hit points, You make an immediate save to end the condition applied by the attack at a +2 bonus. A successful save ends the condition, and a failed save does not trigger any effects. If you fail the save, you still make a save at the end of your turn as normal.

You can compare this to the Hobgoblins PC's ability to make a save vs anything as an imm reaction.

Like a Rock: If resist all 1 seems to good for a feat, maybe we could bump it up to Epic tier?

As far as balancing/naming feats, I'm all ears.

I'd be more than happy to make a new block for all this info once we get it all sorted out.

 

[wherwrthal]

Let's see if I can help out.

Mül (Half-Dwarf)

RACIAL TRAITS
Average Height: 5'6"-6"2" (This reflects the original premise that muls are taller than both their parents)
Average Weight: 160 – 230 lb.
Ability Scores: +2 Strength, +2 Constitution
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Normal

Languages: Common, Dwarven
Skill Bonuses: +2 Endurance, +2 Athletics
Dual Heritage: You can take feats that have either dwarf or human as a prerequisite (as well as those specifically for müls,) as long as you meet any other requirements.
Indomitable Defense: When you use your second wind, you gain an additional +2 bonus to all defenses until the start of your next turn.
Shrug It Off: You can use Shrug It Off as an encounter power. (This is good. It shows that Muls are tough to bring down, but isn't overpowered since it's only once per encounter.)
Stubborn as a Mül: When making a death saving throw, if you roll a 19 or a 20 you may spend a healing surge (page 295). In addition, anytime you spend a healing surge because you rolled 19 or higher on a death saving throw, you gain a number of additional hp equal to your Constitution Modifier. (Constitution Score is a little too high. It almost brings you back up to half your hit points at first level after being considered disabled/almost dead. Lower it to Con Mod and it could be one of the race's abilities.It's also comparable to the Dwarf's Stand Your Ground and the Warforged anti-death thing where they can take 10 on a death saving throw.)

Shrug It Off Mul Racial Power
Your enemies attempt to wear you down is laughable.
Encounter
Free Action Personal
Trigger: You are hit by a save end attack.
Effect: Reroll your saving throw against a condition. You must take the second roll, even if it's lower. (This doesn't provide you with a bonus, but gives you a chance like the halfing, or elf to reroll.)


Racial Feats: (Need help balancing feat prerequisites!)

STONE TACKLE
Heroic Tier
Prerequisite: Mül
Benefit: When you successfully bull rush an opponent, they are knocked prone at the end of the push.

LIKE A ROCK
Paragon Tier
Prerequisite: Mül
Benefit: You gain resist all 1.

RELENTLESS WILL
Paragon Tier
Prerequisite: Mül
Benefit: When you use your Shrug it Off Racial ability, you gain a bonus to the save equal to your con modifier. This supersedes the normal +2 bonus.

DEFIANT UNTO DEATH
Epic Tier
Prerequisite: Mül
Benefit: You must fail four death saves instead of three to die.

 

[VBMEW-01]

I've been following this one, and as a big fan of Dark Sun I've enjoyed its evolution.

I always PDF things I like, for my collection and thought I'd throw in what I've got on this one.

 

[colemanpalm]

yeah, that looks alot better. +2 to all saves doesn't seem to overpowered. its GOOD, but not overpowered. i like it. and the new shrug it off is pretty good, i like it. and i thought the 1 resist to all damage as an encounter would be overpowered, obviously, since thats constant. but i don't think it'd be to big of a deal if it was a paragon or epic feat, imo.

and on the languages, i saw an earlier post remarking on half elves knowing common, elven, so mul should know dwarven and common, which i could see. but also it seems like they're abandoned by both humans and dwarves? or not very readily accepted at least? so i'm not sure as far as the RP goes, but knowing only common would be a blow to them. not a huge one, just a pain in the side haha.

but everything seems pretty balanced at this point in my opinion. gotta play it to try it out, tho.

 

[wherwrthal]

VBMEW - Thanks for putting that in a PDF

Coleman - The flavor text is optional for any world. Maximus was styling it after the original Dark Sun flavor. Realistically you could make a world of happy reproducing Muls who were loved by their bi-racial parents. If that's how you want the story to go. But I understand where you ae coming from.

Need to see if we can come up with some Mul-ish monster stats for this thread. Like the ones in the Monster Manual. The first one would have to be a gladiator. (Of course)

 

[cmbarona]

My guess would be elves are considered attractive, dwarves aren't. Thus the idea of half-elves is acceptable (even "romantic"), whereas the idea of humans procreating with dwarves makes us go "yuck".

A guess only, mind you.

I dunno. I have to admit I'd hook up with a 4e dwarf chick. I think they're the most attractive female dwarves illustrated in D&D to date.

 

[Trooper Maximus]

VBMEW - Thanks for putting that in a PDF

Agreed!

Coleman - The flavor text is optional for any world. Maximus was styling it after the original Dark Sun flavor. Realistically you could make a world of happy reproducing Muls who were loved by their bi-racial parents. If that's how you want the story to go. But I understand where you ae coming from.

Uh-huh!

Need to see if we can come up with some Mul-ish monster stats for this thread. Like the ones in the Monster Manual. The first one would have to be a gladiator. (Of course)

That would be neat. You guys are all better at this than I am.

I sent whererthal a copy of my Thri-kreen custom race stats/feats, since he knows way more about 4E than I do. Hopefully we can see that in another thread soon.

I'm glad I contributed something that it seems at least a few people have come to enjoy