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Half-Giant
- Thread starter Raduin711
- Start date
Raduin711
Hero
Ok, think I should explain a little bit first.
This is an adaptation of a race that appeared in the 2nd edition Dark Sun campaign.
The Half-Giants are humans and giants mixed together into one race. They aren't a naturally occuring race. They were engineered by evil sorcerer kings to create a race of powerful warriors and laborers to do their bidding. This was the result.
-Half-Giants don't really have a culture of their own, because they are such a young race.
-HG's have a peculiar psychology; they tend to latch on to others and do as they do. If they are successful, they will continue doing whatever it is they are doing. If they are rejected, or can no longer perform whatever function they served, they move on. They tend to be rather detatched, mimicking one group of people or one person and going on to the next when it becomes inconvenient.
-HG's change their attitudes and outlooks as often as they change who they follow.
-HG's tend to be rather childlike. They tend toward kindness, curiousity, cooperation and communication.
The old rules for 2E half giants are follows:
-Half Giants switch alignments as a reaction to severe changes in his environment.
-Half giants double hit die rolls, no matter what class he belongs to. HP bonuses are applied after the die roll.
-Equipment costs double
-+4 str, +2 con -2 Int -2 Wis -2 Cha
Half Giants used to range from about 10 to 12 feet tall. This would put them squarely in the Large creature category... however Giants nearly across the board were shortened by 6 feet. The Hill Giant was only shortened 5 1/2 feet, and the storm giant was only shortened 5 (the biggest and the smallest types of giants)
Averaging 6 feet wasn't big enough, so I got the average percentage lost of height from all the giants, and applied that to the half giant, which basically teetered them on the edge between large and medium, thus the Goliath approach.
This is an adaptation of a race that appeared in the 2nd edition Dark Sun campaign.
The Half-Giants are humans and giants mixed together into one race. They aren't a naturally occuring race. They were engineered by evil sorcerer kings to create a race of powerful warriors and laborers to do their bidding. This was the result.
-Half-Giants don't really have a culture of their own, because they are such a young race.
-HG's have a peculiar psychology; they tend to latch on to others and do as they do. If they are successful, they will continue doing whatever it is they are doing. If they are rejected, or can no longer perform whatever function they served, they move on. They tend to be rather detatched, mimicking one group of people or one person and going on to the next when it becomes inconvenient.
-HG's change their attitudes and outlooks as often as they change who they follow.
-HG's tend to be rather childlike. They tend toward kindness, curiousity, cooperation and communication.
The old rules for 2E half giants are follows:
-Half Giants switch alignments as a reaction to severe changes in his environment.
-Half giants double hit die rolls, no matter what class he belongs to. HP bonuses are applied after the die roll.
-Equipment costs double
-+4 str, +2 con -2 Int -2 Wis -2 Cha
Half Giants used to range from about 10 to 12 feet tall. This would put them squarely in the Large creature category... however Giants nearly across the board were shortened by 6 feet. The Hill Giant was only shortened 5 1/2 feet, and the storm giant was only shortened 5 (the biggest and the smallest types of giants)
Averaging 6 feet wasn't big enough, so I got the average percentage lost of height from all the giants, and applied that to the half giant, which basically teetered them on the edge between large and medium, thus the Goliath approach.
In fact why don't you just use the Goliath stats and call the Half-Giants in your world. Add some fluff (or even rules) about the alignment business, strange as that seems.
And presto you have a play tested and likely balanced race of big, strong and tough humanoids of ECL +1.
That just seems the easiest way to get what you want. Piling on Physical stat increases and reducing mental stats IMO stops being balanced at a point. With the stats you have proposed no one will play a halfgiant unless they plan to be melee monsters and for them the drawbacks just ain't enough as it is stuff (int, wis and cha)they don't care about.
If you compare a standard fighter with a your halfgiant the half-giant will be worse of at very low levels. But at about 4+ level he will be better.
Try comparing the following 25pt buy human and half-giant fighter builds. I know which one I think is the better.
Human fighter level 4; HP 35 (4d10+8): Init +1; AC 19 ( +1 dex, +8 armor); Attack +8; Damage 2d6+6(13); Fort +6, Ref +2, Will +1; Str 16, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 8.
Skills: Climb+10 , Jump +10, Ride +8, Swim +10
Feats: Weapon focus, Weapon specialist, Power attack, Cleave, Expertise, Improved disarm
Half-giant fighter level 3; HP 33 (3d10+12): Init +0; AC 18 ( +8 armor); Attack +9 Damage 2d8+7(16); Fort +7, Ref +1, Will +0; Str 21, Dex 10, Con 18, Int 11, Wis 8, Cha 6.
Skills: Climb+9, Jump +9, Ride +3, Swim +8
Feats: Weapon focus, Power attack, Cleave, Great cleave
Racial ability: Powerful build
Human fighter level 10; HP 80 (10d10+20): Init +1; AC 19 ( +1 dex, +8 armor); Attack +15/+10; Damage 2d6+6(13); Fort +9, Ref +4, Will +5; Str 17, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 8.
Skills: Climb+16, Jump +16, Ride +14, Swim +16
Feats: Weapon focus, Weapon specialist, Power attack, Cleave, Expertise, Improved disarm, Iron will, Improved bull-rush, Great cleave, Improved critical, Greater weapon focus
Half-giant fighter level 9; HP 90 (9d10+36): Init +0; AC 18 ( +8 armor); Attack +17/+12 Damage 2d8+11(20); Fort +10, Ref +3, Will +4; Str 23, Dex 10, Con 18, Int 11, Wis 8, Cha 6.
Skills: Climb+14, Jump +14, Ride +6, Swim +13
Feats: Weapon focus, Power attack, Cleave, Great cleave, Iron will, Greater weapon focus, Weapon specialist, Improved bull-rush, Improved critical
Racial ability: Powerful build
And presto you have a play tested and likely balanced race of big, strong and tough humanoids of ECL +1.
That just seems the easiest way to get what you want. Piling on Physical stat increases and reducing mental stats IMO stops being balanced at a point. With the stats you have proposed no one will play a halfgiant unless they plan to be melee monsters and for them the drawbacks just ain't enough as it is stuff (int, wis and cha)they don't care about.
If you compare a standard fighter with a your halfgiant the half-giant will be worse of at very low levels. But at about 4+ level he will be better.
Try comparing the following 25pt buy human and half-giant fighter builds. I know which one I think is the better.
Human fighter level 4; HP 35 (4d10+8): Init +1; AC 19 ( +1 dex, +8 armor); Attack +8; Damage 2d6+6(13); Fort +6, Ref +2, Will +1; Str 16, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 8.
Skills: Climb+10 , Jump +10, Ride +8, Swim +10
Feats: Weapon focus, Weapon specialist, Power attack, Cleave, Expertise, Improved disarm
Half-giant fighter level 3; HP 33 (3d10+12): Init +0; AC 18 ( +8 armor); Attack +9 Damage 2d8+7(16); Fort +7, Ref +1, Will +0; Str 21, Dex 10, Con 18, Int 11, Wis 8, Cha 6.
Skills: Climb+9, Jump +9, Ride +3, Swim +8
Feats: Weapon focus, Power attack, Cleave, Great cleave
Racial ability: Powerful build
Human fighter level 10; HP 80 (10d10+20): Init +1; AC 19 ( +1 dex, +8 armor); Attack +15/+10; Damage 2d6+6(13); Fort +9, Ref +4, Will +5; Str 17, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 8.
Skills: Climb+16, Jump +16, Ride +14, Swim +16
Feats: Weapon focus, Weapon specialist, Power attack, Cleave, Expertise, Improved disarm, Iron will, Improved bull-rush, Great cleave, Improved critical, Greater weapon focus
Half-giant fighter level 9; HP 90 (9d10+36): Init +0; AC 18 ( +8 armor); Attack +17/+12 Damage 2d8+11(20); Fort +10, Ref +3, Will +4; Str 23, Dex 10, Con 18, Int 11, Wis 8, Cha 6.
Skills: Climb+14, Jump +14, Ride +6, Swim +13
Feats: Weapon focus, Power attack, Cleave, Great cleave, Iron will, Greater weapon focus, Weapon specialist, Improved bull-rush, Improved critical
Racial ability: Powerful build
Raduin711
Hero
monboesen said:
I guess I am more willing to put out the effort of coming up with my own balanced half-giant than putting up with racial abilities that I don't feel have anything to do with the 2nd edition race. So I go on.
It's kind of hard to find a balance when the two examples of half-giants I have seen are at totally opposite ends of the spectrum. If you think my stats are extreme... the Athas.org version (the guys that picked up ownership after TSR went bye-bye) did even better. +8 to strength, +4 Con, -2 Dex, -4 Int, -4 wis, -4 cha. But anyway.
Looking back at the Goliath stats, they're not so unbelievable as half-giant stats... I might change that dex penalty to a penalty against Int and Cha. This would open up the roleplaying opportunities into include rogues and clerics. I would imagine they would still make great barbarians.
I guess if you looked at those stats (+4 str, +2 con, -2 int, -2 cha) would you believe that those stats belong to someone who is half-human/half-giant?
Oh, and I'm open to ideas about racial abilities.
One of my players mentioned that the type for the half-giant should be monstrous humanoid, which sounds reasonable to me, as a sort of in-between humanoid and giant.
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